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I’ve had a very hard time dealing with supervisor(s) in the last 2 years of my PhD. This is my third year and with the help of a postdoc I finally formulated a more generic scientific goal for my Ph.D. The postdoc likes it a lot and I can see how this generic formulation solves many problems including the ones that I’ve to deal with application wise in the PhD.

My primary supervisor is usually a very discouraging person. I’ve the impression that he talks behind my back to my other supervisor and the main professor. He has a narrow vision related to the application and never really helped me much.

In this country, we value the opinion of the main professor a lot in the PhD. This person was very encouraging and helpful. However, suddenly he changed his mind and formally asking me to focus on the main problem of the Ph.D.(which is application based). I suddenly lose motivation and as a young researcher, I’m also not able to stand up for myself.

Should I just work hard to realise my scientific aims? Or, should I find a balance of satisfying them and my own goals as well? At the end it all comes down to efforts and papers and they get to know everything that I work on.

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    Are you doing your PhD in the Netherlands?
    – Neuchâtel
    Commented Sep 27, 2022 at 23:27
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    @edelweiss Thank you for the question, but I don’t want to reveal things like this here!
    – CfourPiO
    Commented Sep 27, 2022 at 23:34
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    @CfourPiO Standards on independence and expectations may vary by country. I assure you no one cares. Commented Sep 28, 2022 at 15:50
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    I asked that because I saw you mentioned the location, but I will not share the details as you requested. However, it is helpful to know the country as things tend to be different (sometimes more complicated and overly bureaucratic than usual)
    – Neuchâtel
    Commented Sep 28, 2022 at 19:46
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    ''I’ve the impression that he talks behind my back to my other supervisor and the main professor.'' Just to warn you that academia is a very small world, all the people at your institution talk to each other and you may come up as a topic of conversation, the work you are doing etc.
    – Tom
    Commented Sep 28, 2022 at 20:12

4 Answers 4

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If I understand your description correctly, you've decided you would like to change your research agenda from your initial proposal, giving a more general research agenda. It sounds like there is some disagreement among the academics you mention as to what is an appropriate scope and focus for your research project, and whether or not they support this change. If I understand your description correctly, there is a professor and a postdoc who agree with your more general research goals, but your primary supervisor is encouraging you to focus on a particular applied part of this broader agenda, which was your initial proposal.

A PhD candidature is a research-training program, and the proof of development is generally the ability to create publishable research outputs (e.g., academic papers conference papers, etc.). Nothing in your post really sets out a plan for how you want to achieve this within your research vision, so that is something you will need to think about. If you focus on the narrower applied project at first, and are able to successfully publish research on that topic, it may assist you in developing towards completion of your candidature. Similarly, if you can publish research in the broader areas of interest to you, that may also assist you in developing towards completion of your candidature. The best way to proceed depends on a complicated calculus of risk, reward, motivation, etc., but you will need to formulate a pathway forward where you can publish a sufficient amount of research to meet the requirements for successful completion of your candidature.

It sounds like you have some general motivation issues with regard to the research, and you also appear to have some unrealistic ideas about the expectations for a PhD candidature. Particularly because of the latter, I recommend that you do not follow your own instincts too closely, without significant counsel from the academics supervising you. You should have a discussion with your supervisor and try to formulate a program where you will publish research but where you are also heading towards areas of broad long-term interest to you. Motivation issues are tricky in graduate-level education --- on the one hand, we ideally want students to pursue research activities that they find interesting, but on the other hand they also need to develop some stoicism in relation to the slow pace of development of work and the necessity to work on problems of less interest sometimes.

In regard to formulating a way forward, I would strongly caution against your assumption that only the people who are being encouraging of your proposal to change your research program are being helpful --- sometimes it is also helpful to discourage approaches that may not bear fruit. Your supervisor might be of the view that there is a greater prospect of research publication in your initial applied topic, or might have some other reasons for suggesting you focus on that part at present.

I’ve the impression that he talks behind my back to my other supervisor and the main professor.

That is part of his job; when supervising a doctoral candidate it is expected that you will confer with other supervisors and possibly even other professors outside the supervisory group. There is certainly no expectation that all these discussions would be limited to situations where the student is present. Bouncing ideas and opinions off other academics is a helpful way for a supervisor to test whether they are providing good advice to the student and it is a useful mechanism for general alignment of best practice in supervision (and it is also sometimes just a helpful way to vent to colleagues about day-to-day work frustrations).

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    Thank you for the very useful response! I’ll definitely reflect upon this.
    – CfourPiO
    Commented Sep 27, 2022 at 23:25
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    Besides, I have heard (Slovenia) that someone had trouble because they strayed a bit. He managed to publish in decent enough journals to meet the stated requirements and it would be smooth sailing if the publications were on things in research proposal; but as it wasn't, it was way more of a hassle. ((this type of problems likely happens only for borderline cases)) Commented Sep 28, 2022 at 10:38
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In addition to Ben's reply, try to take the perspective of all parties involved.

  • Does the main supervisor discourage your approach because (i) she/he thinks it is not promising? (ii) not aligned with their own research agenda? (iii) doesn't comply with constraints imposed by the funding body? (iv) other external constraints?
  • Similarly, is the postdoc just interested in the new project or would she/he benefit from that project also also for their own career?
  • At the risk of sounding generic: Pursuing independent interests is generally good, but only if you actively seeks advice from 1-2 people you trust, and you are well aware of expectations and constraints at your specific place.
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    Thank you for your answer! It helps me get perspective from the other side (supervisor side). All I can say here is that the primary supervisor, in my opinion wants me seriously to remain under his shoes , entertain all that he has in his mind (although those things don’t work properly) and at the same time he is trying to advice me forcefully when he doesn’t know the direction very well. The postdoc in my opinion didn’t have his own agenda. He genuinely felt to help me in a very scientific way. The formulation I did with him is not necessarily bound to any specific application.
    – CfourPiO
    Commented Sep 28, 2022 at 20:32
  • Continuing the previous comment: This formulation gives me perspective, pushes me to think beyond. The main question of my PhD is also formulated in a similar way conceptually (mathematically). I think, although my knowledge in this domain is very less, this kind of formulation pushes me to go deeper. I also started writing ideas into papers. It certainly has potential for multiple papers including a formulation for my original question! My supervisor, on the other hand, is not willing to understand the bigger picture. He is trying to influence others so that I remain under him.
    – CfourPiO
    Commented Sep 28, 2022 at 20:36
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I’ve had a very hard time dealing with supervisor(s) in the last 2 years of my PhD. This is my third year and with the help of a postdoc I finally formulated a more generic scientific goal for my Ph.D. The postdoc likes it a lot and I can see how this generic formulation solves many problems including the ones that I’ve to deal with application wise in the PhD.

A PhD thesis has a well defined topic. Sometimes constraints related to funding sources makes that you must work on that topic, like it or not. Phd students have supervisors because they (most of them) do not have the ability to guide themselves among the available research topics. A supervisor will ensure that you work on a subject on which you can progress and publish.

I find it odd to say that you "formulated a more generic scientific goal" for your phd with the help of a postdoc. The goal of your phd is defined with your supervisor(s). If you leave them out, don't expect to have their support when things do not go as you planned.

My primary supervisor is usually a very discouraging person. I’ve the impression that he talks behind my back to my other supervisor and the main professor. He has a narrow vision related to the application and never really helped me much.

You talk about a "primary supervisor"! If he wants you to work on the application, you should do so. Maybe that's the main motivation for your thesis. Do you expect your thesis to succeed if you completely disregard what you are expected to do?

Nowadays, applicative research is very well received. You open your perspectives from both academic and industrial points of view.

In this country, we value the opinion of the main professor a lot in the PhD. This person was very encouraging and helpful. However, suddenly he changed his mind and formally asking me to focus on the main problem of the Ph.D.(which is application based). I suddenly lose motivation and as a young researcher, I’m also not able to stand up for myself.

Again, you are asked to focus on the main problem. I guess, this is mentioned somewhere in your PhD topic and you cannot avoid it. If you work with your supervisors on a subject, they will help through discussions and advice. If you try to choose your own path, without their approval, I don't see how you can succeed (unless you're very talented and you'll make it on your own).


In view of the above:

  1. The topic of a thesis is, usually, well defined (here, knowing the country you're from would help us understand better the situation). Especially if the motivation is an application and the funding is specially directed towards this.

  2. It is not ok to rely more on the advice of a postdoc than on the advice of your supervisors. Think a bit who has more experience? Who can support you for future applications?

  3. From my point of view it is completely fine and normal to have ideas on which to work on in parallel with your PhD work. If you find interesting ideas in the work of the postdoc you mention, you are free to develop them in the same time as you do your PhD work (here again, knowing the research domain would be more helpful, I talk from the point of view of a mathematician). But prioritize and think carefully. If you disregard your supervisors things might not end well.

  4. Concerning the title question: "Should I follow my own direction for my PhD research?" My short answer is NO. You follow your own direction after you finish the PhD. On the other hand, you follow your own direction for what you can do in parallel with your PhD work.

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    And this is why research culture (usually dictated by locale) is so important -- this just doesn't resonate with me. My opinions on some of these points differ substantially: 1. The topic of a thesis is, usually, fairly fluid; the initial topic is often more of an pointer in the right direction than a roadmap to a doctorate. 2. Especially in the narrow topic of your PhD, especially in your 3rd year, you have the most experience dealing with this topic. The advisor isn't doing active, hands-on research on the topic of all their PhD students.
    – penelope
    Commented Sep 29, 2022 at 9:58
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    3. PhD students that mature into best researchers show some initiative, and can stand by their ideas. A disagreement with your supervisor about an approach isn't a bad thing -- nor does it mean you should automatically defer to their suggestion without discussing the merits of both.
    – penelope
    Commented Sep 29, 2022 at 10:00
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    @penelope: 1. For purely academic subjects, the topic of the PhD might be fluid. For PhD contracts financed through funds directed for applications (projects, industry) the topic is rather fixed. 2. I also experienced a positive third year. But listening to the advice of my supervisor proved essential. He strongly encouraged me to try something that I kept postponing and it resulted in a very nice paper. Commented Sep 29, 2022 at 11:05
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    @penelope: 3. The word "disagreement" seems so wrong for me in the supervisor-phd student relation. If a student is mature enough that he/she has the ability to have a strongly different, correct/better, approach than the one proposed by the supervisor then that student should also be capable of doing things in parallel. Implement the approach suggested by the supervisor, implement your own: in the best scenario you end up with two publications instead of one. Commented Sep 29, 2022 at 11:09
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    I know I don't know precisely your situation. Sorry if I sounded a bit harsh in my suggestions. I hope you will be able to manage the situation and finish your PhD successfully. Try to be on good terms with your supervisors despite possible disagreements. It is best to have them as friends after your PhD ends. If you know your approach has more chances of success, develop it and try to further diversify your interests, including the suggestions of your advisor, as possible. Commented Sep 30, 2022 at 8:47
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Other answers emphasized the role of scientific supervision and risk management in taking decisions about the direction of your PhD research. A lot have been said about the experience of supervisors vs. the experience of PhD students.

But there could be a completely formal reason for the behavior of your supervisors. PhD projects are often funded by the project that is managed by (I presume) your main professor. The project contains some research plan which should be followed to some reasonable extent. If you reformulate your thesis objectives, you may well get very nice results which may lead to your PhD, but the project will fail. The goal of your supervisors could be to achieve success in both directions.

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