Is it reasonable for a PhD student to take a weekday off after having to work on a weekend?

Question

I'm having to come into the lab on weekends to get the fast-growing organisms I work with at the right stage of development for my experiments, I cannot predict the dates or times for that precisely (unless ~20 hours prior) because the time they take to get there depends on the mutations I never worked with before and their response to tiny fluctuations in temperature. Today (Saturday) I came in for ~6 hours and will have to come in tomorrow for a few hours. I found a day next week when I don't have to come in. My PI hates not seeing me in the office 9-5 every single weekday with no exceptions even at lunch time and even if I had to work late the day before or work weekends for the reasons described above. Is it still reasonable to tell my PI that I'm taking a day off because I had to work during the weekend? I ask because I expect them to get livid as usual. Can I complain to someone if they react like this over me trying to take control of my own work schedule?

I heard a suggestion earlier to change advisors - I can't find anyone else who works in this field at my institution and my research council funding can't be transferred elsewhere. I'm two months away from finishing my second year (out of 4 years of funding) so I'd hate to start my project again somewhere else.

Edit to make question more to the point and add: I'm not complaining about working weekends, I love working weekends. I did pull all-nighters before and I did work in the lab three weeks in a row before including weekends. I was happy with all of that but not happy with angry emails from my PI asking why I'm not at my desk at a certain time and why I left the office without their permission. It doesn't seem to matter how many days in a row I work or whenever I had to work at night, I feel I'm still not "allowed" to take time off. I don't know how to tell my PI that I shouldn't need their permission for this, but I feel they won't take it well.

Answer 1

Yes, it's reasonable.

However, that doesn't mean your PI must be reasonable.

Answer 2

Your advisor does not sound reasonable and it might be that you have no choice but to either meet their demands or leave. If they are prone to raising their voice and swearing, it does not sound like a good situation to stay in. That said, it also doesn’t sound as though you are doing everything you could at your end to manage the situation, so it might be worth trying better communication first.

Instead of working 6 hours on Saturday without notice and then telling your advisor that you will take a weekday off, try approaching them on the Friday, telling that that it looks as though you will need to work on Saturday, and asking if it is okay to do that and then take a day off during the week. They might still say “no” because they might really be unreasonable and want you there all the time. Or they might say “yes” because maybe the real issue is communication (i.e. they need to know when they can expect you to be there and when not to have confidence that you are working professionally or to feel that they are in control of their lab) or respect (insecure advisors might need more show of respect that those who are more secure in their position).

You’ve said that they want you to be at your desk all the time, even during lunch — but later said in the comments that they have said they want you to ask permission before leaving for lunch. Again, this might be more about communication and respect from their perspective than about wanting you to work through lunch. Does it really cost you anything to stop by their office on your way to lunch and ask/tell them (e.g., “I’m just off for lunch now if that’s okay?”)? [Also check that your expectations regarding the duration of a lunch-break match, as that could be another hidden issue if the two of you aren’t communicating well].

Answer 3

There are several ways to think about this. You say you are at a UK university. In which case there are almost certainly rules around how much leave you can taken and time off in lieu etc. Now in generally, these are almost certainly observed more in the breach, than in the observance. But its something to bare in mind because....

Your supervisor can huff and shout and be unpleasant all they like, but they can't get rid of you. No UK supervisor has the power to do that. Instead they would either have to start a disciplinary procedure against you, or a failure-to-progress process. If what you are doing is within the rules, and your project is going well, then they are not going to get very far with either of these.

Of course, just because they can't get rid of you, doesn't mean they can't make your life difficult. They can not fund your experiments, or they could not proof read your work, or support your development, help you meet your community, or they could write you a poor reference. Some of these things would be them stepping outside the rules they are supposed to follow (not funding sufficient experiments that you could get a PhD, proof reading your work), others less so (getting you networking opportunities, writing you a reference).

You could of course go down the formal route. If they routinely shout during work hours I would be tempted to lodge a formal complaint about them. My university has two systems - one is a formal complain procedure, via the departmental PGR lead, or via HR, the other is something called "report and support", which is an anonymous system where people can report worries they have about members of staff.

Its worth bearing in mind that a PhD is not a 9-5 job. I always say to people that work with me that I don't expect them to routinely work more than 40 hours a week, but there will be times when that is necessary because of the nature of the project. My personal feeling is that people should take time off because they need time off, not on some close accounting of how many hours they've worked in a given week. I think if you need time off to do something particular, OR need time off because your are in need of a break, then that's fine, and it will balance out with the extra time people work, rather than saying "you worked 2.5 hrs extra on Saturday so you should get 2.5hrs off in the week". But everyone runs their group differently.

However, the BBSRC does specify that students get 8 weeks off a year, and your supervisor should make that possible for you. If they are not its probably worth saying to them "When do I get the time off my studentship specifies", and if they say "you don't", then, again, it might be worth speaking to someone more superior.

Answer 4

I'm in the UK, but not in life sciences.

Your taking time off after working through the weekend is far more normal than a PI getting visibly angry at you for doing so, or expecting students to be chained to their desks.

In some circumstances a quiet word along the lines of "try to push through until you've got these results, then take a break" is sensible, especially if you'd been taking it easy before the recent round of experiments.

Most academics that I know would be in favour of their students getting some fresh air at lunchtime.

Do check your department's/university's guidance on PhD workload, but also their rules on safe lone working. We have pretty strict rules on when and how people are allowed to work in the lab outside normal hours, and what they're allowed to do. It's quite likely your PI is in breach of those too (even if you've got 24 hour access - that just means you're trusted to work within those rules)

Answer 5

I think you need to set aside your academic hat for one moment and treat this as a simple workplace-employment issue.

Academics often have little training as managers, while students have little experience of what is normal and acceptable for a work setting, so there can occasionally be errors in complying with statutory employment laws. However this looks like a mild communication issue. Evidently this is stressful for you, but you’re a joint owner of this partnership and your duty here is to communicate maturely and amicably with your PI and assertively set appropriate expectations, so that the PI can see how you are fulfilling your hours, just as an employee might with their manager.

In a workplace setting a simple way to do this could be at a weekly progress meeting or in a progress report. Before going in at the weekend, you explain why you might need to go in, and if so, that you intend to be off on whichever day it is. This is demonstrating initiative and self-management skills. Your work-hours are visible to your PI, and if there’s any essential tasks to be done in the laboratory on the absent day then these can be reassigned in an orderly way. This would be demonstrating responsible communication and teamwork which lets everyone know what is going on, and is certainly not skiving!

If that is still not satisfactory, then sit down and agree a more formal written list of objectives or ‘job description’ of tasks you and your PI agree are appropriate, so your focus is on results and not hours. Job descriptions are for everyone, not just salaried staff. Also, ask politely why it is necessary to be in the lab? Is there some tangible reason to be constantly available? (or is that simply your PI’s insecurity.)

And, try to develop a regular habit of engaging in personal smalltalk (without over-sharing!). This helps illustrates your life is far richer than just a scientific experiment, and establishes a familiar context within which you may routinely prioritise relationships and personal tasks at appropriate times during your day - which is a normal thing to do. Smalltalk develops trust for when you need to tackle more difficult conversations in the future.

It’s worth remembering that your PhD will bear no more correlation with the hours you spend, than it does to the word-count in your thesis! Its the quality of time that matters.

Answer 6

Certainly.

If you need to, tell your supervisor "I'm really exhausted and feeling unwell today, I won't come in" and be done with it.

I had a hard nosed supervisor in the pre covid times and certainly wasn't expected in the office 9-5. A PhD is a research project not a job. Your relationship sounds unhealthy. Ensure you have a papertrail and get the student wellfare people or supervisor relations or what ever that section is called in your university involved (There will be one, ask around). If you're having this stress in your second year you're not going to succeed until the end.

Also talk to other students under this PI how they handle it.

Answer 7

Good point from Bryan Krause. A couple of others though. You've nearly completed your second year, so by now you're - to some degree - expected to manage your time. And while I would have instinctively replied,yes of course have a day off if you've done more than a week without (for the sake of your health at least), and as you say, research can't always be timetabled. At some point you'll probably be pulling all-nighters; it would be a shame to lose results because you weren't there. But, conversely, you need rest and time away to be able to maintain your optimum, so it's a tricky balance.

Unfortunately these are things you'll have to deal with eventually, whether this PI is at fault or not.

Answer 8

"My PI hates not seeing me in the office 9-5 every single weekday with no exceptions even at lunch time and even if I had to work late the day before or work weekends for the reasons described above."

If you receive the current UKRI stipend, this would be illegal as it falls below minimum wage. It doesn't matter whether you're an employee or not - in the UK, it's illegal to have someone work below the national minimum wage, even without a contract. The academic conventional wisdom widely shared on this Stack doesn't override labor laws and workers' rights. I suggest contacting your union, as should many academics and especially people on this Stack.

Answer 9

I'm finding it hard to be sympathetic, actually, since you describe these as "your" experiments. You are, in effect, working for yourself, toward your future career. What happens to your cultures if you take time off during the week and something bad happens to them?

Many of us in grad school worked through the week-ends, though we did so in our own space, perhaps, not in a lab. Many academic professionals take little time "off" from duties, whether teaching or research. Even week-ends can be when you catch up.

Sorry.

Yes, you can ask for time off, but it seems unlikely that it will be granted, given what you say about the supervisor. And, if they are the source of your income, it seems overly risky to press too hard. Being fired as uncooperative is just about the worst case outcome.