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My group of new masters students submitted their 1st essay. I explained in our 1st group meeting that I may take up to 2 weeks to return essay feedback to all of them. (I said this explicitly to manage expectations and as I've got a very heavy teaching workload for a few weeks). In the meantime, they have 2nd essay to work on - and they will be receiving feedback from me fortnightly throughout the academic year.

One of the students emailed me this, despite my explanation (one week after submission, so well within the 2 week feedback timeline I gave them):

Good morning [name],

I hope you had a restful weekend. Please let me know promptly about the feedback on my first essay, as I am now gearing up to write the second with only a few days - a narrow amount of time - to digest and implement improvements. All the best, [name]

I was quite taken aback and upset by the email phrasing/tone, I find it (subtly) inappropriate and demeaning, treating me as if he's my boss, and I'm at his service (not even senior colleagues/Head of Department etc ever speak to me like this when making a work request). It's also patronising as I obviously know he won't have much time to integrate feedback, as I set the deadline.

Firstly, am I overreacting or is this an inappropriate way for a student to speak to a lecturer? Secondly, any advice on how to respond would be very welcome!

I find myself unsure how to respond. A part of me really wants to explicitly call him out (I will be supervising him all year so I think it's important to set boundaries and expectations regarding behaviour/communication early on), but another part is worried that wouldn't be okay on my part.

I was thinking of responding something like:

Dear xxx,

As I very clearly already explained in our tutorial meeting, it might take up to two weeks for you to receive feedback on this essay.

Also, please note that it's inappropriate to issue demands to academic staff regarding how we conduct our teaching work.

Regards, xxx

Finally, it dawned on me that this student is a man and as I'm a woman (and early career academic), there might be some unconscious (or conscious!) bias going on - I doubt he would speak to my 50 year old senior male colleagues in this way.

I know I'm overthinking this but I mainly have experience with students who email in a considerate and respectuful way so this really unsettled me. Thank you so much for all for your input!

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  • Comments have been moved to chat; please do not continue the discussion here. Before posting a comment below this one, please review the purposes of comments. Comments that do not request clarification or suggest improvements usually belong as an answer, on Academia Meta, or in Academia Chat. Comments continuing discussion may be removed.
    – Bryan Krause
    Commented Oct 30 at 15:27
  • 9
    Is the student a non-native speaker? Did you use the word "fortnight" that one might assume to mean "forthcoming night"?
    – Džuris
    Commented Oct 31 at 20:15

11 Answers 11

64

I strongly suggest you leave off the second paragraph and don't express annoyance. I'd also avoid "very clearly" as it has a scolding tone. Students aren't perfect. Accept it.

And, a second paragraph should remind them that the time is getting late to work on the next essay. Suggest they get to work on it.

I'd think you would be more successful overall with students like this to take a somewhat tolerant attitude and laugh at their marginal/poor behavior.


I agree that there may be sexism in the student's note. But it could also be that they are just "full of themself" or are socially awkward. Even autistic people might respond like that having little natural sense of social norms. Take the high road so you don't get stuck on the low.

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    I agree with Buffy that you ought to remove “very clearly” from your proposed response. These two words are both adverbs. As a general rule, when answering students by email, I tried to do an ‘adverb-ectomy’ (excision of adverbs) on my response. I tried to attend to removing adverbs especially if I was irritated by what the student wrote. The student’s email might have seemed less an assault if he had left out the adverb “promptly.” I’m not sure I would say that you are “overreacting” to what the student wrote. But in academics, a VERY thick skin is something to strive to develop. Commented Oct 29 at 23:49
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    @DianaPetitti You can make your comment an answer.
    – usr1234567
    Commented Oct 30 at 6:26
  • 6
    "remind them that the time is getting late" - it seems the student already knows, they wrote that they "[are] now gearing up to write the second with only a few days [left]". Repeating that might be unnecessarily confrontational. The student just might have missed the info that they won't get the first evaluation before the second essay.
    – Bergi
    Commented Oct 30 at 23:06
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    As an autistic person I don't really love "maybe he's autistic" being thrown in there as an excuse for being kinda rude
    – deee
    Commented Oct 31 at 14:43
  • 5
    @deee, I didn't just throw it in. I know some prominent and excellent autistic academics who sometimes appear rude but it isn't their intention to do so. Just missing cues.
    – Buffy
    Commented Oct 31 at 15:43
44

The student sounds anxious, but this is a far cry from seriously rude, at least compared to the spectrum that I have seen (yes, I have also seen seriously polite and overpolite mails, so the spectrum I have seen is wide).

In general, I found the tolerance principle quite useful. Once, ignore. Twice, raise an eyebrow. Three times, crack down.

[Unless it is very seriously and unambiguously rude which this one doesn't seem for me to be, if interpreted through the lens of anxiety - but maybe you have an unbelievably well-mannered cohort to compare with]

As response to such mails, rather than being reactive to the misplaced tone of their letter, I prefer to dry them out and use a maximally impersonal tone. Here's what you could say if you decide to follow this route [added explanations in square brackets]:

As explained in our tutorial meeting, it might take up to two weeks for you to receive feedback on this essay.

In particular, the fact that the writing of your second essay overlaps with the period of marking, is factored in and intentional.

[this makes clear that you knew about that and it's supposed to be that way; it's not something they can hope to change]

The reason is ---give your reasons--- .

[Personally, I do not think that such an overlap of marking and work on the next essay is a good idea, but maybe you have specific reasons to do so, so it does not harm to specify them in a dry, factual manner - but choose reasons that cannot be easily overturned; if you cannot, just leave the reasons out, though I personally think it is good academic practice and example to give justification for decisions]

Hope that clarifies your questions,

Prof. Dr. Lovegood

[The Prof. Dr. is a bit of a distancing element to express your displeasure - but if that is not done at your institution, you can also use your first name, and the old-fashioned "Sincerely, Luna". The more old-fashioned, the more distancing you signal. So, "Respectfully, Luna" would actually be a very strong rebuffing, without saying so]

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    While I like your distinction in the greeting formula, I doubt the ignorant student will recognize it.
    – usr1234567
    Commented Oct 30 at 6:35
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    @usr1234567 Maybe not. But I have used it to surprisingly great effect myself and, yes, people who are insensitive to others are often quite more sensitive to the vibe of a response to themselves than we are tempted to give them credit (of course, to some extent, that's to some extent dependent on the culture of the place and recipient, and you may have to culturally adapt your response). That's also why I wouldn't lead with direct confrontation, unless it is absolutely necessary, as an indirect warning can often be enough. When not, you have a different-sized problem on your hand. Commented Oct 30 at 12:47
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    One thing I do not see discussed is whether the student is a native speaker. Because if not, they a) will not recognize the delicate distinction, b) might have phrased their email this way due to the language barrier and not because of their attitude in the first place. Commented Oct 30 at 18:45
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    @AndreiSmolensky And that's precisely why mentioned the three occurrences rule, and I opt for a dry response round at first. If the student meant no harm due to language, they won't read anything into it. If they intended power play, they will read between the lines. And if they are insensitive, they have one more round to be warned off more clearly before they get their mind "opened a bit further than before" in the third. Commented Oct 30 at 20:17
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    @Significance It's entitled, yes. But I have seen rude. I mean, really rude. On a scale from 1 to 10, 10 being the highest, this is probably 5-6 of what I have seen. And if someone makes implications, you always have the option to imply back. However, I found it useful to always put a damper on escalation. You are the person in power, you pretty much decide the rules of the game. You can afford to be non-reactive on minor blips. Commented Oct 31 at 1:27
32

There are many good answers here already, so I am not trying to provide a full answer, just to contribute small details which others may have missed.

I agree that the tone of student's email is far from perfect. I agree that the best course of action may be to stay your ground. However, I also suggest considering further actions to improve student experience for the next cohorts.

I think that the student is essentially right here:

  • getting feedback and acting on it is crucial for student learning
  • hence, timely feedback probably the most important part of the exchange between the University (academics) and student
  • feedback is timely if students have sufficient time to read it, understand it, and use it to improve their learning by the next (or final) assignment
  • delivering feedback on Assignment 1 after Assignment 2 is due would not allow students to act on the feedback they received and lead to frustration

I see the student request more as a complaint about the timeliness of feedback. You may not be able fix it for this cohort, but your Department can design a more robust assessment pattern for the following years. This may mean having fewer assessments and spread them along the term more evenly so that there is ample time between them to act on the feedback received from the previous assignment. Also, some assessments can be made formative, i.e. not contribute to the mark, but rather provide feed-forward advice. Such assignments may be shorter, faster to mark, and ultimately more beneficial for students learning.

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    "Delivering feedback on Assignment 1 after Assignment 2 would lead to frustration." - This. Especially with assignments of the "essay" type where often the requirements aren't 100% clear, having to write a second one without feedback on the first one would make me REALLY grind my teeth.
    – MaxD
    Commented Oct 30 at 14:17
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    You may not be able fix it for this cohort, - other than by prioritizing grading / feedback for assignments like this one where there's a second similar assignment due before your planned feedback schedule would provide it. If every assignment in every class has this problem, that would require doing more grading work sooner to catch up, rather than just scheduling differently. That's worth considering if there's anything else they can put off. Commented Oct 30 at 21:18
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    From the phrase "up to 2 weeks," the student has (correctly) inferred possibly sooner; OP seems rather to have intended "no less than 2 weeks."
    – Gossar
    Commented Oct 31 at 2:56
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    "Delivering feedback on Assignment 1 after Assignment 2 would lead to frustration." This 100%, it is a terrible idea to ask students to start another assignment without feedback from the first to guide them.
    – deep64blue
    Commented Oct 31 at 19:24
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    @Barmar With a second essay due imminently, students have every reason to expect actionable feedback from the first (especially if it's the first). OP has muddied the water by saying "up to 2 weeks" knowing that she intends "fortnightly"
    – Gossar
    Commented Nov 1 at 2:39
30

What about:

Dear abc,

Your enthusiasm for starting the second essay is delightful!

As of now, we are still on track for a fortnightly feedback turnaround.

I assure you that if I can get them reviewed sooner then I will but do not delay due to the first essay.

Regards, xyz

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    Great answer. It doesn't buy in to the push for a super-fast response but it does this without being rude or punitive, it repeats the earlier advice about a two-week turnaround, and indicates, through the first sentence, that you did read the whole of the student's email. Commented Oct 30 at 14:36
  • This is a very good answer except that it encourages the idea that the student shouldn’t start the second essay before they have feedback from the first. I’d keep the rest but remove the first sentence and instead include the line, “please don’t wait before starting your second essay.” Commented Oct 31 at 1:03
  • @Significance It is ambiguous, to me at least, as to why the student's second essay hinges on feedback from the first. Does each essay build upon the previous? Is the student merely trying to gauge OP's grading style/expectations so they can cater an essay to OP? Telling the student to not wait seems about as effective as telling someone to "stop being mad". There seems to be something about the curriculum structure which makes it disadvantageous to wait a fortnight for feedback.
    – MonkeyZeus
    Commented Oct 31 at 4:23
  • 1
    My reading was that the student was simply anxious and prefers to gauge the OP’s expectations before starting the next essay. I made the same mistake of waiting unnecessarily for feedback on a previous assessment before starting an assignment in primary school, and was set straight by my teacher then. (I remember it vividly because it felt unfair at the time, but I did learn the lesson). Commented Oct 31 at 6:25
  • 1
    @Significance I edited my answer to reflect your sentiments. I felt that the student's efforts should still be recognized so I left the first sentence.
    – MonkeyZeus
    Commented Oct 31 at 13:15
9

My general advice is to put all rules you want to impose (judging from both your anticipations for the particular course you are about to start and your previous experience) into the written syllabus and respond with a single phrase: "Your situation/request has been addressed in Section X, part Y of the syllabus, please refer to it". Long and elaborate explanations of why you are doing the things the way you are doing them usually get nowhere. If you have just made an oral announcement in the beginning of the class, take a sheet of paper now, write "Class Rules" on the top, think of everything you have said already or want to say now, put it there, and distribute it during the next lesson.

I usually keep the syllabus simple and fairly generic and distribute "Exam rules" a couple of weeks before the first exam to avoid any misunderstanding about what is OK, what is not, what kind of grading to expect, etc. Half of it is common sense (of the kind "If you don't understand the conditions of the problem, then don't try to read my mind but ask a question instead") and the other half is of the kind "There will be no partial credit" or "You can check your solution with me before submitting the test; I'll either confirm that it is correct or indicate the first wrong step or unclear passage; this check can be done multiple times".

I guess you get the idea by now: never retract from what you have announced and be ready to put in writing whatever you think can be misinterpreted or disputed at any time. In case of a possible conflict arising from unjustified student demands, just act as an impartial finite automaton following the preset program on the input tape. Spare compassion, empathy, and granting privileges for the cases where they are really needed (illness, important family events, etc.) and spare the anger and frustration for self-control exercises in front of the mirror.

Of course, I presume here that you have thought about balancing the student convenience with your workload limitations before you entered the classroom for the first time, so the fortnight return policy you announced came from the necessity rather than from pure whim :-)

Just my two cents...

9

The student’s tone was unprofessional, but the message was actually correct: if you can’t get feedback to the students within 2 weeks*, then it’s not constructive (from a learning standpoint) or fair (from a grading standpoint) to give the students an assignment in the meantime that would depend on that feedback. In my view you have the following choices:

*Not a value judgement. As a former TA I know how hard and time-consuming grading is!

  1. Reduce your time to feedback: Streamline your assignments to make them quicker to grade or streamline how you grade, possibly giving slightly less detailed feedback on each for quicker turnaround time.
  2. Hold off on similar assignments during the waiting period: if you can’t streamline your grading process any further, then only give assignments that would not in general depend on the feedback your students are waiting to receive. This doesn’t mean don’t give homework, just try not to give assignments with a lot of overlap with the one you’re still grading.

Any other approach deprives your students of the full benefit of being able to incorporate your feedback in their practice and thus of learning opportunities, and honestly isn’t fair from a grading standpoint.

To answer the student, I recommend making the assignment in question either not for credit or extra credit, and announcing this to the whole class. Or you can give them an opportunity to correct it for a regrade after receiving the feedback in question, but that would be more work on your part. Either way you won’t have to address the student in question at all if you adopt my suggestions, as you will be addressing your announcement about this assignment to the entire class.

In the future if you get an unreasonable demand (this one wasn’t unreasonable), you should simply restate your policy each and every time a student asks a question about it. Simultaneously take longer and longer to respond to repeat queries made by email. The combination sends a message that the student is pursuing a fruitless quest and limits the burden on your time dealing with the problem student.

That said while the student was rude in this case, they weren’t wrong, and I do think you need to make some changes as indicated in my answer above.

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    Only 1 week has passed from the 2 weeks OP promised. They’re well within their own deadline, the student is being inappropriate.
    – Neinstein
    Commented Oct 30 at 20:23
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    @Neinstein See Dmitry's answer from 2 hours before this one; it makes the same point that this is a real problem the professor created with their choice of feedback schedule and assignment due dates. It's not unreasonable for a student to hope the professor will exceed their standard (or worst case?) 2-week feedback timeline when that's necessary for it to inform their next essay. Commented Oct 30 at 21:23
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    "I recommend making the assignment in question either not for credit or extra credit, and announcing this to the whole class." Surely changing assessment policy on the fly when the course has already started would not be considered fair: shouldn't the assessment procedures be laid down in the syllabus? Making this change now would disadvantage students who haven't left the second essay to the last minute and have already put a lot of effort into it in the expectation that it will be part of the assessment. Commented Oct 31 at 1:15
  • 3
    @Neinstein From the phrase "up to 2 weeks," the student has (correctly) inferred possibly sooner; feedback cannot be effective or meaningful unless it is timely. OP seems rather to have intended "no less than 2 weeks."
    – Gossar
    Commented Oct 31 at 2:59
  • 2
    @Gossar 1 week is within “up to 2 weeks” and well before “no less than 2 weeks”, which is not what OP meant anyway. The student can respectfully ask whether it’s possible to get it sooner, but the disrespectfully demanding tone OP got is well over the limits.
    – Neinstein
    Commented Oct 31 at 14:04
2

I've gotten these sorts of emails many times over my career, as I'm sure pretty much every teacher has. My solution -- with students, as with other things in life -- is to just not take them personal (even if they are personal, like this email): Nothing good can come off that.

The reason why the email annoys you so much (and would annoy me equally) is that the student is asking for something you simply can't provide, and is doing so in a demanding way. But the reason you can't provide what they're demanding is not personal, it's factual: You just don't have the time. So perhaps something like this is an accurate response without being personal:

Dear ...

I'm doing my best, managing this and my other classes, along with the other responsibilities to my job and my family. As a consequence, it sometimes takes a little bit for me to give everyone the feedback they deserve. But as mentioned in one of the earlier classes, I'm committed to giving all of you feedback within two weeks, and that includes you. In the meantime, it's probably useful for you to already get started on the second assignment.

Best, ...

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    I don’t see a point in justifying anything, especially with family. Taking the time allotted isn’t due to exceptional time constraints, it’s sticking to what was promised - which goes both ways and that’s it. Commented Oct 30 at 9:34
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    Didn't downvote, but I agree with @MisterMiyagi that it is not good to apologize with "weaknesses" of one's own or justifications to a demanding and impositioning mail. Unwise move in general, only an option to be used if you already established firm authority, and then it should be in a more humorous than apologetic fashion. Commented Oct 30 at 12:55
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    @MisterMiyagi I think Wolfgang is recommending turning this into a teaching moment about taking the perspective of others. I disagree that this is just about "sticking to what was promised": the procedure and timeline are there for a reason, not to be arbitrary rules. Explaining the reasons for those rules may help a student understand and be more thoughtful about the purpose of rules like this in the future.
    – Bryan Krause
    Commented Oct 30 at 13:19
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    I think most of these comments stem from "I'm doing my best," which carries a bit of an apologetic tone ("You may have lost, but at least you tried your best!") and sounds like an admission of guilt; either an admission that two weeks is too long or that OP is behind (they're not). ("Why did I get a B? I tried my best!") Commented Oct 30 at 17:28
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    @WolfgangBangerth To be honest, we do not seem that far away from each other in our general philosophy. Where we differ is this concrete case. OP's case is perceived by OP and quite a few others here as outright rude. We can't be sure, but it is distinctly possible. In such cases, I have found it regularly to be a capital mistake to show vulnerability. A mistake for which one pays big time and with interest. No need to be rude in turn, but definitively unwise to open up. If it never happened to you, you must have had a consistently nice environment or you are doing something else in addition. Commented Oct 31 at 1:43
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Reading this e-mail, I suspect that they are a non-native speaker and were taught what polite words in English are but have never learned the cultural aspects of politeness in Anglosphere countries. The whole thing is overly formal in the way of someone who's studied business English but never used the language day to day nor spent time living in and interacting with an Anglosphere culture to pick up the indirectness that is central to good manners (the only rudeness is that they were too direct). If true, this also greatly increases the chances that they struggled to understand the words of your lecture, which would also explain why they didn't know feedback would be so late in coming.

If I'm correct that the student is from a non English speaking culture, I'd suggest that you first answer their question and then explain that it's more polite to phrase requests indirectly or as questions than as clear demands and suggest an alternate way to have phrased their e-mail that would have conveyed the same information more politely.

0

I am not a professor, never will be, and will never be in this position as an academic. I also cannot comment on the gender aspects, because, well, I am the 50 year old senior male colleague to people where I am.

I am, however, working in industry, and I've been in a lot of mentoring roles before and after my excursion to academia. So my perspective is from that workplace angle:

That attitude is not going to fly in the workplace.

It's just not. The inversion of authority and responsibility is glaring to my eye without needing to be pointed out. I would be offended if I received that type of e-mail from a new hire, and I would be embarrassed if I witnessed that attitude directed at someone else.

I may be in the minority, but I do not think you are overreacting.

One approach I have seen my own professors take in situations superficially similar to this is to make a stern announcement, either through e-mail or at the beginning of a lecture, reinforcing the rules of the class. In this case, something along the lines of, "As a reminder, you may not receive feedback for two weeks. Please do not ask about it before that. I will not respond." (Or anything that matches your writing style.)

Note that I have never seen a professor call a student out by name in such an announcement, and I advise against that. I find it hard to imagine a situation where I would willfully embarrass a student in public. Or in private. But this does serve the purpose of reinforcing the rules for everyone, and making sure that the offending party hears it directly as well.

As a side note, I do have some sympathy for the student, if they are in the position of having to finish a second essay before they get feedback from the first.

It might be both wise and kind to tell them (or reinforce the idea) that you understand the constraints they are under-- you set them up, after all!-- and will not penalize them for not incorporating feedback they have not had enough time to digest.

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    Not true. People are often quite demanding in industry, even towards people one or two levels higher up. They are pressured by their own bosses. It does not make their behavior better, but you can often experience it.
    – usr1234567
    Commented Oct 30 at 6:32
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    I don't think comparing the the relationship between a teacher and a student to that between an employer/manager and an employee, they are different relationships. Commented Oct 30 at 10:34
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    That said, reminding students of the rules in a whole class announcement is not a terrible idea. Commented Oct 30 at 10:44
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    @DmitrySavostyanov Timeliness is not at discussion here, the OP is within their allotted marking period. Also, the comparison with customers is not precise either. If you absolutely want to compare it, the uni is a gym. You pay for the opportunities. Still, stations/coaches in the gym might be occupied and you may have to sort out your own procedure for progressing, even if you pay for them. Commented Oct 31 at 1:47
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    @CaptainEmacs I like the gym analogy. And although it is true that gym stations can be fully occupied sometimes, it should be a rare occasion, which a responsible gym management should minimise. As responsible academics, we care about the best experience for our students and do not dismiss their valid concerns. Commented Oct 31 at 12:51
-1

I'd recommend something like...

Dear xx,

You may have missed it but the schedule was already described on day month.

If however you are aware of the schedule and are requesting preferential treatment over your peers, perhaps you could justify in writing why you deserve such treatment.

Kind Regards,

Yy

Definitely would not recommend getting caught up in the sexism stuff. Someone like that would probably go after whoever they thought they could regardless of gender if they sniffed weakness.

-8

I recommend you press the delete or archive button on the email and move on. No response needed.

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    Responding to concerns of their own students segarding their own course is absolutely a responsibility OP as a professor has to fulfil. Regardless if they’re appropriate or not.
    – Neinstein
    Commented Oct 30 at 20:25
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    I always respond to students, whether or not I like what they say and how they say it. Students really appreciate fast responses, and are more likely to take even a negative response/reaction from a prof to heart if they know the prof takes them seriously. We are not talking about a crackpot sending OP an unsolicited text to review. Commented Oct 31 at 1:48
  • "No response needed." -- by whom? Commented Oct 31 at 13:29

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