Recommendations for how to discuss in-meeting communication with my PhD advisor?

Question

I am going into the 5th year of my math PhD. In May, I discussed the idea of taking a 6th year with my advisor -- he supported the idea. To financially support my 6th year, I am preparing an application for a fellowship at my university, and I feel good about my prospects.

Unfortunately, my relationship with my advisor is not healthy (I say some about this in my May post about asking for a 6th year), and I offer some more context below. For now, know that I have decided to discuss with my advisor our mentorship dynamics. I am here to ask for advice about how to navigate the conversation.

I am considering statements in the realm of:

• "I want to write a dissertation that I am proud of. I don't think I can achieve this without mathematical guidance and support. I come away from our meetings feeling confused, incapable, and anxious. I'd like to discuss ways of creating more positive outcomes."

• "I feel that I have no one else I can discuss our research area with, which makes me feel isolated and limits my broader understanding of the area. Could you start inviting people to the weekly research seminar? I see this as additionally benefiting your younger students ____ and _____."

• "When I ask a question about something we have previously discussed, I feel incompetent when I hear 'We've already discussed this' without further explanation. I am asking again because I don't yet fully understand. Could we instead briefly re-discuss as to further my understanding?"

• "I feel ignored and irrelevant when I notice regular phone use while I am presenting my progress/thoughts. Could we agree to limit phone use during our meetings?"

• "I don't like that we schedule our meetings by text, and I feel that email is a more appropriate medium. Can we communicate by email instead?"

My question: What reactions come up for other academics when reading the above list? Do you think other language/emphases might be more effective? I have considered mentioning some personal medical issues, which have mostly resolved as of this summer, to frame a sort of a "new start" perspective. But reading similar situations, like advisor communicates badly, PhD supervisor issues, and communicating personal problems, I feel unsure that this would help.

For what it's worth, here is some context about my relationship with my advisor:

• I actively avoid meeting with my advisor, because I dread the way that our meetings make me feel (incompetent, incapable, confused, frustrated, anxious, depressed).
  • For what it's worth, I have discussed this at length with a personal therapist and with multiple department ombuds. I feel that I am at capacity for how I, personally, can manage my feelings/needs without a healthier relationship with my advisor.
  • My advisor and I meet around once a month for 1 hour.
• I feel dependent on my advisor right now, because I have relatively few mathematical connections. I attribute this to a combination of:
  • my advisor doesn't invite speakers to department seminars (so I don't meet people in my research area) and hasn't formally connected me with any faculty outside the department;
  • I have not yet had a project with decent results, only marginal/modest results (which I feel limits my ability to have more engaged math conversations with folks);
  • Two of the three faculty members on my qualifying/preliminary exam committee are unavailable for meetings due to other academic obligations (e.g. their own students); and
  • I hold multiple marginalized identities in math which can make networking complex/challenging.
• My advisor has repeatedly encouraged me to spend as little time on teaching responsibilities as I can (i.e. my time commitment should be limited to lecture itself). Frankly, I find such an encouragement unprofessional/inappropriate, especially because I am considering a teaching-oriented academic position long-term (which he knows).

Answer 1

My question: What reactions come up for other academics when reading the above list? Do you think other language/emphases might be more effective?

A lot of your phrasing sounds like you're trying to implement some form of couples therapy onto your advisor, without them ever agreeing to participate in this. Moreover, e.g. the example about "can we agree to limit phone use" when you specifically want them to stop using their phone reads as patronising. Similarly with the email- it sounds like you're verbally dressing up the point that you want your advisor to revise their work patterns based on your feelings.

To use similar language to your questions, my reaction is "stop shopping for milk at the hardware store". Your advisor is not responsible for managing your feelings. It's also not their job to network for you. Thirdly, while I understand the moral point about teaching, most supervisors got to this point in their careers because they focused on research- they may be wrong, but they're trying to look out for you.

Some caveats to what I wrote: I'm not saying that your advisor isn't being rude- they are! - or that this working relationship is fine as is. But I think you should focus on dealing with your feelings & health with actual qualified professionals (like your therapist), and on actual steps to graduation/science with your supervisor.

My reactions and advice on the conversation, more specifically:

• Plan some coping strategies for the things you can't change

You aren't going to win the screentime or mode of communication battles with your advisor. But you can turn off notifications from your supervisor (and only actively check their texts during working hours), and you can vent to your friends afterwards about phone use during meetings. My former supervisor was also partially fused to his phone- I would usually stop talking if I noticed him getting distracted by it, and if prompted to continue, say something like "No, that's alright- if you need to get that, just take care of it first" and prepare for whatever I wanted to discuss next in the down time. Perhaps they're "just" being disrespectful, but choosing to view their behaviour as a reflection on them - not your worth as a presenter - and giving them some grace to deal with it, worked for me. It also sets a boundary (I'm not going to split attention with their phone, the meeting resumes once they've put it down) while considering that they genuinely might have something else urgent going on.

• Have that meeting with your supervisor, but focus on actionable steps to graduation

Fundamentally, you want support from them, so try to speak their language. What do they still want you to do to graduate? Could they collaboratively express this with you in some form of Gantt chart, or whatever their preferred method of organisation is? Lean of them for the scientific and academic support they have to give, and go other places (therapy, administrators, your phd-mates) for everything else.

Additionally:

*) If you need to re-discuss something, re-phrase it (I know, cheap trick) and try to get an actionable next step out of the discussion. So if they still shut down your topic, stick to asking them what specifically you should do next to resolve the issue. This (in my opinion) is worth a bit of friction- I'm not expecting your advisor to have all the answers, but something like "Well I don't know, I think Bob worked on something like that in the 80s, you know Florida Bob..." gives you a way to move forwards.

*) Find a specific person you want to invite to seminar, and ask your professor to invite them. Just like you want some specific actionable task, it's easier for your professor to send an email to X colleague than to rethink his stance on networking and seminars. Have an argument for why their work relates to yours/the departments. You could also try taking the initiative and contacting them first to try and start a collaboration (without promising an invite)- if you're lucky and things go well, perhaps they will invite you!

*) You didn't ask for this, but try to take the initiative as much as you can and network. Aside from speakers coming to you via seminar, can you go to them via conferences, summer/winter schools, workshops, secondments or seminar talks of your own? Since you're applying for funding anyway, why not see if you can snag a small travel grant too. Are there people you've met at conferences whom you could email? If you feel that "mediocre" results somehow make you less deserving of this, perhaps some resources on imposter syndrome might be helpful.

• Some parting thoughts

You mentioned that you recently had a new start related to resolving some medical issues, which- congratulations! Now that you have this energy, it might be worth channeling it into whatever comes next for you - a teaching position somewhere nice? - instead of trying to make over the past. Even with excellent mentorship, the last year of a PhD is insanely stressful. The thing is, your working relationship - if there continues to be one after your PhD - with your supervisor is going to change a lot when they move from "person holding my entire academic future in their hands" to "eccentric former mentor who texts me 1-2 a year about finishing that paper draft one of these days". This change will give you a natural opportunity to reset your interpersonal relationship if you continue to have one. But trying to force these changes in advance is probably doomed.

Answer 2

First your comments:

"I want to write a dissertation that I am proud of. I don't think I can achieve this without mathematical guidance and support. I come away from our meetings feeling confused, incapable, and anxious. I'd like to discuss ways of creating more positive outcomes."

Your advisor is not responsible for your feelings. You need to be specific with what you need in order to feel less confused. You feeling incapable or anxious is a you problem, not an advisor problem unless they are actively hostile. Having incompatible personalities is not hostile. If your advisor cannot provide the basic guidance needed in a way you can work with, then frankly they are not the advisor for you, and you should have gotten out long ago. Trying now to re-engineer your relationship, when you are trying to finish is a bit of a lost cause.

"I feel that I have no one else I can discuss our research area with, which makes me feel isolated and limits my broader understanding of the area. Could you start inviting people to the weekly research seminar? I see this as additionally benefiting your younger students ____ and _____."

Why does your advisor have to do your networking for you. Have you brought up people you would like to have invited? Have you provided solutions rather than just complaints? Also the last line of benefiting other students. This is not your call. You do not speak for anyone other than yourself and you are not the advisor.

"When I ask a question about something we have previously discussed, I feel incompetent when I hear 'We've already discussed this' without further explanation. I am asking again because I don't yet fully understand. Could we instead briefly re-discuss as to further my understanding?"

You should ask for an explanation/elaboration when this is happening, not retrospectively as the person may not even be fully aware that is how they handled it.

"I feel ignored and irrelevant when I notice regular phone use while I am presenting my progress/thoughts. Could we agree to limit phone use during our meetings?"

This is an unfortunate fact of modern life. Faculty are busy and get hit with so many emails throughout the day, they may be checking to keep up. They may be looking something up relevant to what you said to get clarification. They may be using it as a coping mechanism for personal issues, anxieties, etc.. They may simply be unaware they are doing it. They are possibly bored with dealing with you. You don't know, and lecturing your advisor on etiquette seems counterproductive to your ultimate goals. Again your feelings of irrelevance are on you to fix, not your advisor. They are not your romantic partner.

"I don't like that we schedule our meetings by text, and I feel that email is a more appropriate medium. Can we communicate by email instead?"

Again what is your outcome here? You are lecturing your advisor on what you feel is appropriate for running a group? Why didn't you just find another advisor?

Honestly, by reading your comments and the context, you are placing too much power on your advisor and making them responsible for your feelings. Similarly, you are making them responsible for your mediocre progress. Take ownership of your networking and career progress. Clearly you have the wrong advisor for your needs.

Not all inter-personal relationships work, so why should all mentor-mentee relationships work? Half of marriages end in divorce after all.... why is academia immune from the human condition? At this point, just focus on wrapping up and leaving, not on lecturing your advisor on etiquette. Advocate for yourself when needed and seek clarification when appropriate.

As for your final statement about teaching. Yeah, your advisor is right. Largely, nobody on a committee cares about your TA'ing if your PhD is mediocre. Focus on wrapping up your research. A PhD is a research degree... the TA'ing is just a bit of training and a means to fund it, not the main focus. The fact that you allude to them as unprofessional for suggesting something that is sensible just proves you have so much resentment towards this person and you should focus on leaving for yourself, and also for them.