4

I am a PhD candidate at a US university, considering a one-year post-doctoral fellowship at German institution 'A' right after graduation. Once I get my PhD [and move to 'A'], I would also like to suggest co-writing an NSF (or other federally funded) grant proposal with a professor at a US university 'B' that would potentially fund my post-doctoral research at 'B' after leaving 'A'.

My question is whether my being employed at a non-US institution at the time of grant submission disqualify me from receiving US federal funding for the work I intend to do at a US institution (and the co-PI is at a US institution)?

I checked this and this, but it does not quite cover the above case.

2 Answers 2

6

This will all depend on the funding call. Some grants require a PI who works at a US institution at the time of submission; some do not.

What is actually going to be be a bigger problem for you with this idea is that an awful lot of NSF grants (and federally funded grants in general) do not allow postdocs to be PI or co-PI - they require the PI to have a permanent position at their respective institute. (There are, of course, fellowships/grants intended for postdocs, but that doesn't sound like what you are describing here.) So doing this with the intention of doing a postdoc at University B will likely not work.

If you simply want to help the professor at University B write the proposal, and be one of the other personnel/staff on the proposal, that would almost certainly be fine even if you're not at a US institution at the time of submitting the proposal.

5
  • In that case, does the post-doc's name not appear as PI on the grant? Commented yesterday
  • 3
    Correct, their name would not appear as a PI on the grant because in that case they would not actually be one of the principle investigators on the grant. They would be named in the "additional personnel" sections. And it is also possible for a lot of proposals to not even have a specific person named to fill a postdoc role at the time of submission, with the understanding that the PI would be hiring a postdoc to work on the proposal if it is funded. Commented yesterday
  • 3
    @principles-investigator To add to this, it is very uncommon for someone in a postdoc position to be PI on any grant, federally funded or otherwise. First, because funding agencies want someone with a "permanent" placement at their institute to reduce administrative headaches, and second, because, to be perfectly blunt, most postdocs aren't ready to be PIs just yet and funding agencies by and large aren't going to take a chance with their limited pot of money on funding a project with an untested postdoc as a PI/co-PI. Commented yesterday
  • 6
    Common misconception: the "PI" of a project is not (necessarily) the person who wrote most of the proposal text, nor the person you will be funded through the project. It's the person who will manage the funds and take responsibility for the grant. That's why most funding agencies look for the stability of (at least) tenure-track staff.
    – xLeitix
    Commented yesterday
  • This bit from @xLeitix - "manage the funds and take responsibility for the grant" - is the part that most new postdocs need more experience with before they try to become the PI for a grant. There are so many background things that go on "behind the scenes" of even smaller grants that have very little to do with the research aspect, but are still the PI's responsibility - things like project reports to the grant agency, meeting with program managers, coordinating/approving expenses, tracking the budget, potentially hiring people to work on the project, etc. Commented 16 hours ago
1

Disclaimer: the world of NSF funding and rules is a complicated one and I am not an expert on it. This answer provides some partial information that I believe to be correct and that is potentially relevant to your question.

NSF has many different programs each with its own rules, so I think you haven't given us enough details to give a clear answer to your question. However, based on your description, I can speculate about two possibilities for how the arrangement you are proposing might work:

  1. You can apply for an NSF postdoc. If you are a postdoc in Europe and looking for your next postdoc gig, and have a professor in the US who wants to work with you, and if you work in mathematics or a related area, then you can apply for the Mathematical Sciences Postdoctoral Research Fellowships (MSPRF), colloquially known in the math community as an "NSF postdoc". The rules for this program, described here, state, in a section titled "Eligibility Information":

    Who May Submit Proposals:

    Proposals may only be submitted by the following:

    • The Mathematical Sciences Postdoctoral Research Fellowships are awards to individuals, and proposals are submitted directly by the fellowship proposer to NSF. Fellows must affiliate with institutions or organizations (e.g., Institutions of Higher Education (IHEs), government and national laboratories and facilities, privately sponsored nonprofit institutes and museums, and for-profit organizations under certain conditions).

    Who May Serve as PI:

    An individual is eligible to submit a proposal to this program if all the following criteria are met:

    • Must, at the time of submission, be a U.S. citizen, U.S. national, or a legally admitted permanent resident alien of the United States;
    • [omitting various other conditions - see page 3 of the PDF linked above]

    This means that if you are a US citizen or permanent resident, you can apply for this grant even if you are working in Europe at the time you are applying. It won't be an application co-written by you and the professor - rather, you will be the sole "PI" and have to write and submit the proposal yourself. I think the professor has to write a letter of support expressing their desire to invite you to collaborate with them at their institution, and you'll need to include several letters of recommendation - read the program guide for details.

    Keep in mind that the MSPRF program is very competitive, and usually only very high quality applications from promising candidates are selected for funding.

    If you are not in mathematics, you should look to see if your discipline has an NSF program analogous to the MSPRF.

  2. You can get hired as a postdoc funded by an NSF grant. The professor who wants to work with you could hire you as a postdoc where the money to pay your salary comes from an NSF grant. In this type of arrangement, the professor is the PI on the grant. It is the professor who has to write and submit the grant application, not you, and you will not be a named PI or co-PI on the grant. (In reality, one can imagine a scenario in which you help to write the grant application even though your name is not on it and you won't get the credit for obtaining the funding if it is approved; but you will get hired as a postdoc, so that's a reward of sorts. Keep in mind though, it is the professor who controls the funding and they could hypothetically decide to hire someone else.)

    These sorts of postdoc funding setups are not common in mathematics, and I believe they are very common in other sciences. Typically the professor will have obtained the funding before they decide to hire a specific person as a postdoc, and the postdoc to be hired is not named in the proposal. So I have the impression it's less common for the postdoc candidate to be actively involved in seeking and obtaining the funding as it is in the situation you are describing.

    This type of funding does not typically require that the hired postdoc be a US citizen or permanent resident AFAIK. And since they are not named in the proposal, the fact that they may reside in Europe at the time the proposal is submitted is immaterial and also not mentioned.

Hope this helps, and good luck!

1
  • 1
    This is a good response. Regardless of exactly which program the OP is referring to, I want to stress how competitive NSF grants are across the board. I would not make any future plans based on getting something funded by NSF. The process itself is quite random in a sense. You can be among the top 5% of all applicants one cycle (merit wise)... BUT you can find yourself in an incredibly strong batch of applications being handled by your assigned panel, and can end up with nothing because the other proposals will be championed.
    – R1NaNo
    Commented 11 hours ago

You must log in to answer this question.

Not the answer you're looking for? Browse other questions tagged .