How appreciated is "Part III" in the US?

Question

I will complete an MSc in physics, including a thesis, this year.

I have received an offer for a 9 month taught math master's course at Cambridge called Part III, although I don't yet have a funding offer for it, sadly. Some funding sources are available but it is competitive.

My main reason to take this course (beyond the degree itself) is to improve my chances of being accepted to a PhD in physics at Oxford or Cambridge.

Yet I also wonder how much this course is appreciated in the US and if having done it will improve my chances of being accepted for a PhD in top graduate physics schools there were I to apply there as well.

For my doctoral programme, I aim to research topics such GR, QFT, string theory, quantum gravity.

Answer 1

Part III of the Tripos is reasonably well known amongst professional mathematicians. I can't comment on physics. Good marks would surely boost your competitiveness for PhD slots in math.

Having taken one of Oxford's similarly pitched courses 8 years ago or so, here's a broadly applicable set of logistical anecdotes related to subsequent US PhD applications. They all flow downstream from the fact that Part III starts in October and US PhD applications are often due in December.

• You will have to prepare and send off PhD applications alongside some of the hardest segments of the Masters course.
• By the time PhD applications are due, you will have no marks from Part III nor will you have new recommendation letters because there is not enough time. The course is correspondingly unlikely to boost your PhD applications very much in the immediate term.

Answer 2

Part III is pretty widely known, including in the US. Many of my fellow students who sought PhD positions there were successful; though, of course, they were students with strong academic records to begin with. Something to keep in mind, though, is that not only will you not have had sufficient faculty contact to get a proper reference by the American application deadline, and not only won't you have any results by then: you won't have even a record of your ongoing classes. There's no official course registration, and you only declare your exams in the spring. Until then, the academic section of your transcript is literally blank. So, unless you're prepared to wait an extra year to apply for your PhD, the only boost Part III can give your December applications is on its reputation alone.

Side note: the essay is not mandatory, though it is highly recommended. In addition to giving you the closest faculty contact you're likely to have - thus making a reference letter possible - and being genuinely good practice at synthesizing complex research, the Part III courses are brutal. Being able to replace one of them with the essay is a gift. Also on the topic of reference letters: an academic reference commenting on your coursework as a whole is usually obtained from your Director of Studies (a fellow at your college) rather than from any particular course instructor you had. But there's no rule or anything, so if you were to get to know of your instructors and did well on the exam, there's nothing stopping you from getting a letter if he or she is willing.

The lack of primary research is a bit of a treat, to be honest. If you're doing a PhD in mathematics or theoretical physics, you will generally need to take some advanced courses before your research can really get off the ground. Being able to tackle some of those courses with intense focus for a year is a nice alternative to trying to get through them while also trying to justify your research pay, taking qualifying exams, and juggling TA duties. So, yes, you are paying your own way (unless you manage to get a scholarship) but, in fairness, you aren't really doing anything that would justify anyone paying you to be there.

Answer 3

I think Part III is quite common amongst US students nowadays, and is thus well-known to graduate admissions committees. Probably the effect on your application will be good, since if nothing else it shows you are serious about studying mathematics; a school can also reasonably expect you to be considerably better prepared coming after a year at Part III than when you finished your BA. So if one of your issues was a weak curriculum as a BA student (as opposed to poor grades or weak letters), then Part III could help quite a bit. On the other hand, I wouldn't count on a dramatic change in your graduate school admissions, in part because as you note, you won't have your grades or a strong recommendation from Part III in hand when you apply for graduate schools the next time around. I wouldn't worry about the fact that Part III is not research based; obviously doing research before starting graduate school is great, but most graduate schools in the US are not really expecting you to have done much in the way of it beforehand, or to be even close to ready to start when you enter.

I think if money is no object, then Part III is probably as good as anything else you might do for having a strong graduate application in the coming cycle. EDIT: I should probably also say that a matter of substance (as opposed to application strategy), Part III is probably on average better than spending a year as a grad student at a random respectable grad program in the US, since it will bring you into contact with a wide variety of other students and ideas.

However, I think you should weigh that next to the possibility of starting graduate school at one of your lower preferences, and then trying to transfer after a year, or when you get a master's degree. There's no guarantee this will work, but the same can be said of Part III. If you've been offered funded admission at a respectable school in the US, and would have to pay your own way at Part III, I would look hard at whether you think it's worth the money.

EDIT: I wouldn't count on the "glamour" of Cambridge itself to have a strong effect. I honestly don't know how selective Part III is (maybe someone who knows can comment.), so I wouldn't rely on assuming that admissions committees will consider it as such. There's some psychological "band-wagon" effect where getting one prestigious position reinforces getting others, but it won't work if the substance isn't there. Getting a BA from Harvard or MIT is helpful for getting into graduate school (if you have a strong record) because an admissions committee is more confident that getting an A in math class at Harvard really means something, and that a professor at Harvard has a lot of experience with talented undergraduates and thus can speak with some certainty about what it takes to succeed in graduate school. So, if you went to Part III, got good scores on your exams and got a strong recommendation from a professor there, that could strengthen your application a lot as a "second opinion" reinforcing the recommendations and grades you have from your BA. However, as discussed, those would only be available for the fall 2016 admission cycle, not 2015. One possibility is to see about accepting one of your safety schools with a deferment to go to Cambridge, going to Part II in 2014-5, going to the safety school in 2015 and applying for transfer in 2016 or 2017 if you're unhappy there.

One piece of information we're lacking is what your "lower preferences" are (don't put too much stock in USNW rankings, but they help to be concrete in a discussion like this). It makes a big difference whether we're talking about a school in the rank ~25 (like UCSD), ~50 (like UVA) or ~100 (for example, South Carolina). In the former case, I'd say it's a waste of time to try to try to move up unless you go and are miserable, whereas in the latter it makes a certain kind of sense.

LATER EDIT: Incidentally, yes, given that your undergraduate grades are already "baked in," the main things you can still hope to change are your letters, and also your GRE scores if those were bad.

Answer 4

I am just finishing Part III after doing an MSc in my home country and my focus has been on the topics in theoretical physics that you listed. As others have pointed out, by the time applications are due, you will have no grades from the course since all assessment is at the end of the year. Therefore you are essentially trading on the reputation of the university alone. In the UK and Europe, Part III is held in high regard and so you will be at the top of the pack for PhD applications here but note that there are ~70 theoretical physics students in Part III so you'll be competing with them for the best places. Of those 70 students, ~10 get offers for PhDs in DAMTP HEP/GR and probably less for Oxford math HEP/GR (since you compete with more people outside Part III).

Having spoken to people in Part III who have applied for US PhD programmes, Part III will definitely help your chances, but there is still a large bias towards those who did their undergraduate at a reputable US institution. The only students I know who were accepted by a US programme had come from good US schools previously. This is only what I have observed from a small sample size and many in Part III just don't want to go to the US.

For what it's worth, I got everything I wanted out of Part III. It has been great training for a PhD in quantum gravity, the courses were awesome and I could trade on the reputation of the university to get the PhD position that I wanted. At the same time, I've found it really stressful. You begin the year worrying about PhD applications, then you work through the first holiday to prepare for the Cambridge PhD early offers test (HEP and GR only), then the rest of the year is spent worrying about getting the grades necessary to keep your PhD offer if you were lucky enough to get one.

Despite all that, doing Part III will most likely have a great impact on your career in theoretical physics or outside of physics and it really comes down to whether you can stomach the cost and a year of uncertainty.

Answer 5

I am not qualified to say whether you are adequate in math already to undertake the type of research topic you favour at PhD level or not.

But rather than simply take the word of those providing the course - at a cost, naturally - I would encourage you to speak directly to professors covering your intended topics at Oxford (first) and Cambridge to get a feel for what's necessary here.

I expect that they will ask you on the extent of your familiarity in math areas relevant to the research level that they work at. So have full and honest answers ready. Expect them to also test the depth of your math knowledge too.

Bear in mind also that many graduate schools of physics offer - or at least loosely arrange with their math dept colleagues - supplementary courses for PhD students that may benefit from them. These are usually free of charge.

Good luck.

Answer 6

Where are you now? I am guessing not at either Cambridge nor Oxford. You will have a master in physics already in time but not from either of those universities(?). Do you want a second master in mathematics because that is what Part III is! Are you sure that your current course does not already covered those topics that you will be studying in Part III? There are options in Part III that you can always pick new courses to study, of course. Do you want the prestige of being attached to Cambridge or Oxford because if you don't have funding, it will cost you a small fortune for that. But then if there is a specific someone that you want to work with there, you should try communicate with that person to see how likely you can continue to do a Ph.D with him/her after Part III as well as the potential funding for the Ph.D.. It will be an obstacle course for you. If you can get the funding, then I would do the Part III especially if you can take new topics that have not been covered by your currnet course. On the other hand, if you cannot find any monetary support, then you will have to decide. I would say that it is still helpful with a Part III under your belt if you want to look for a Ph.D. position in the U.S afterwards.

Answer 7

As a physicist who has moved between the US and UK, and thus has experience with both systems, my advice is that part III (or the equivalent at Oxford) it not really a good idea if your main goal is to go to the US for a PhD.

First, there are the logistical issues, as user176372 mentioned in their answer.

Secondly (and most importantly), it may not help much, even if somehow you are able to use your part III results for your application to US PhD programs. The US and the UK actually have very different "cultures" when it comes to PhD admissions. The US is very research-focused: what matters most are projects that you've done, letters of recommendation from professors that you've worked with, and any publications you already have. The UK, on the other hand, is very coursework and exam-focused, probably a legacy of the tripos at Cambridge and the surrounding culture.

For example, performing very well (i.e. ranking top ~5 or so in your cohort) in Part III (or the equivalent at Oxford), will almost guarantee you a PhD position anywhere in the UK; but performing extremely well on courses/exams will not be a huge boost to a US PhD application, unless you have research experience to support it. In fact, doing a Part III (or the Oxford version) might be a net negative in terms of going to the US afterwards, since you will have to spend a whole year on classes with no time for projects or research.

Third, it could be a waste of time. Most US PhD programs have a required coursework component that cannot be (completely) skipped, even if you already have taken similar courses or already hold a Masters degree. Since you already have an MSc, if you do Part III + US PhD, you will end up basically doing three (!) masters in physics. This is not the best use of time: the only way to advance your career as a physicist is to do research: it is necessary to have basic knowledge foundation, of course, but after a point more coursework becomes a waste of time.

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If you are dead-set on doing your PhD in Cambridge/Oxford, then go for the Part III. Otherwise, since you already have an MSc, it would be a better idea to apply to PhD programs in the US, and also in continental Europe. (Germany/Switzerland etc. are also great places to do a PhD in physics, and may be the best for you as it would allow you to directly get into research). You can also apply to PhD programs in the UK, although as you already know, your ability to get into Oxbridge might be limited by not having the Part III/masters—but it is not impossible; I know several people doing their PhD in theoretical physics in Oxbridge without having first done the masters from the same institution.

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note: my field is condensed matter/quantum information theory. What I say here should apply to high energy theory as well. Pure math (and the parts of physics truly bordering on pure math) will be a bit different, as in there (I think) there is more emphasis on courses/exams/competitions, even in the US.