Timeline for What is the point of a non-confidential reference letter?
Current License: CC BY-SA 3.0
21 events
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| Apr 13, 2017 at 12:49 | history | edited | CommunityBot |
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| Sep 15, 2016 at 9:18 | comment | added | Pandora | @JeffE Does your comparison sometimes say things like "X is a much stronger candidate than Y, who is now a PhD student at Z"? I have no experience with writing reference letters, so I'm simply curious. I always assumed that comparisons don't tend to put someone else in a bad light, and that if the student is stronger than others it would be stated along the lines of "X is the strongest student I have supervised". | |
| Sep 15, 2016 at 2:08 | comment | added | Significance | In Australia, letters are mainly used to catch mistakes when a decision has almost been made, or to distinguish between the top two candidates when it is close. They are often called for after final interviews, and mainly used to gauge the enthusiasm of people who have worked with the candidate. I was recently asked to write a letter for a student applying for a position in the US and was surprised that the sort of thing I was asked about was the sort of thing candidates would be asked to write about themselves in Australia (e.g. has she demonstrated that she can do this or that?). | |
| Sep 14, 2016 at 17:03 | answer | added | trutheality | timeline score: 2 | |
| Sep 7, 2016 at 11:25 | comment | added | Tobias Kildetoft | @NateEldredge It also seems that apart from cultural differences between the US and Europe here, it is also a matter of differences between fields. All positions I have applied for in math have asked either for letters of recommendation or for names of recommenders who would be asked directly for such letters if the candidate got to a later part of the process. But looking at the rules for applying for various grants not aimed at math, it is clear that math is more or less unique in this. | |
| Sep 6, 2016 at 5:25 | comment | added | O. R. Mapper | @MassimoOrtolano: "why one's chances of being hired should depend on someone else's capacity for writing good recommendation letters" - while I agree with your sentiment, to be fair, the same can be argued about most forms of external evaluation that involve reports in prose form, either as a final result or in between. | |
| Sep 5, 2016 at 19:48 | comment | added | Massimo Ortolano | @JeffE I understand your point. In my case, given that in my country recommendation letters are generally not required in applications (and thus ignored, because otherwise the committee would risk an appeal, see e.g. this answer), or when required they should be from external people, the only recommendation letters I write are for people who applies abroad, frequently in fields different from mine. So what you say would not be applicable to my experience. | |
| Sep 5, 2016 at 19:21 | comment | added | JeffE | Faculty letters are written mostly for people not from my own institution, but they all know each other professionally, because they've all published at the same venues, and everything is on the Web. My letters for faculty candidates include direct comparisons both with other people on the job market and with other recently hired assistant professors in the same field. Likewise with promotion letters. Having served many years on admissions, hiring, and tenure committees, I find these direct comparisons immensely valuable in the letters I read. (2/2) | |
| Sep 5, 2016 at 19:20 | comment | added | JeffE | @MassimoOrtolano I write several letters for undergraduates applying to graduate school, PhDs applying for academic jobs, and current faculty applying for tenure, every year. The undergraduates are all from my department; they typically know each other and (more importantly) students I have worked with recently. My letters usually include direct comparisons with those former students. ("This student reminds me of X, who is now in the PhD program at MIT and just published their third Annals paper.") (1/2) | |
| Sep 5, 2016 at 18:31 | comment | added | Massimo Ortolano | @JessicaB Either I want to give someone the greatest possible chance to be hired, and then I would hide every possible negative impression or refuse to write a recommendation letter if I cannot be positive in any way, or I want to give someone the least possible chance, and then I would give my negative impressions, whether they can read them or not. | |
| Sep 5, 2016 at 18:26 | comment | added | Massimo Ortolano | @JeffE That's a very weak argument given that probably many applicants come from different universities, and personal comparisons with other students or faculties would be pointless. Could you please expand on that? | |
| Sep 5, 2016 at 17:56 | comment | added | Jessica B | @GennaroTedesco Whether you hide anything or not isn't really the point. The person reading the reference needs to know whether you are hiding anything. | |
| Sep 5, 2016 at 16:50 | comment | added | JeffE | @GennaroTedesco The most significant argument in favor of confidential letters is that they allow direct comparisons with other students/faculty. I can understand the view that I should be open with you about my opinion of you; it's harder to argue that I should be open with you about my opinion of someone else. | |
| Sep 5, 2016 at 16:19 | comment | added | gented | I would actually ask the opposite question: "what is the point of a fully confidential reference letter?" because I am genuinely curious to understand why on Earth is that important to hide your opinions about someone once you agreed to be a reference. | |
| Sep 5, 2016 at 15:22 | history | tweeted | twitter.com/StackAcademia/status/772817208657477632 | ||
| Sep 5, 2016 at 14:35 | comment | added | Massimo Ortolano | @NateEldredge About the cultural difference, one thing that neither me nor my other colleagues understand is why one's chances of being hired should depend on someone else's capacity for writing good recommendation letters. | |
| Sep 5, 2016 at 14:07 | comment | added | Nate Eldredge | And as with many things, people on both sides tend to get used to their own culture's approach, and think that the other way is bizarre or unworkable. Kind of like the question as to whether retail prices should be quoted including or excluding tax. | |
| Sep 5, 2016 at 14:00 | comment | added | Nate Eldredge | Other answers on this site have suggested there are significant cultural differences around the world in how letters work. In the US, letters a major determining factor for employers / admission committees. In some other parts of the world, they are not; and in some cases they are only expected to be a pro forma "Yes this person did work here" sort of thing. The difference could be correlated with whether or not letters are confidential. | |
| Sep 5, 2016 at 13:36 | answer | added | Deleuze | timeline score: 6 | |
| Sep 5, 2016 at 13:19 | comment | added | Massimo Ortolano | See, e.g., this question and my related answer. Maybe it could be a possible duplicate. | |
| Sep 5, 2016 at 13:13 | history | asked | Jessica B | CC BY-SA 3.0 |