Timeline for How can I politely explain to my students that the texts in my course are all in English and it is their duty to read it nonetheless?
Current License: CC BY-SA 3.0
48 events
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| Dec 17, 2014 at 3:49 | history | protected | eykanal | ||
| Dec 16, 2014 at 22:06 | answer | added | Daniel Wessel | timeline score: 0 | |
| Dec 14, 2014 at 17:14 | answer | added | Blaisorblade | timeline score: 0 | |
| Dec 14, 2014 at 3:43 | answer | added | DA. | timeline score: 1 | |
| Dec 13, 2014 at 8:51 | answer | added | Relaxed | timeline score: 2 | |
| Dec 12, 2014 at 14:59 | comment | added | eykanal | Please take extended conversation to Academia Chat. | |
| Dec 12, 2014 at 12:45 | comment | added | O. R. Mapper | @JamesRyan: Moreover, note that the respective students can always ask for a translation, if they really need one. It's not the lecturer's duty to foresee all exotic special cases that might arise. | |
| Dec 12, 2014 at 12:41 | comment | added | O. R. Mapper | @JamesRyan: If English is a second language to the lecturer anyway, and everyone in the course understands <local language>, there is no reason not to give the course in <local language>, for the sake of convenience. Also, I find it peculiar how you see the "laziness" on the side of the lecturer when it's the students who do not learn English (or whatever non-local language might be suitable for the discipline in question). A part of university education means learning to gather knowledge autonomously, and relying on a lecturer spoon-feeding translated material is just the opposite of that. | |
| Dec 12, 2014 at 12:37 | comment | added | JamesRyan | @O.R.Mapper If english was as common place as you suggest then there would be no reason for the course's official language not to be english. If it is in another language because only most but not all students know english then it is entirely unreasonable and unprofessional to exclude them through laziness. If there is an additional requirement because of technical terms then that should be stated not assumed. | |
| Dec 12, 2014 at 12:24 | comment | added | O. R. Mapper | @JamesRyan: Again, that depends a lot on the context. Ability to read and write is not explicitly made clear up front, either, it is just assumed that students come with these skills. Likewise, while there are exceptions depending on the high school, in some places it is kind-of guaranteed that for almost every student, English is one of the foreign languages the student has learned at high school. | |
| Dec 12, 2014 at 12:19 | comment | added | JamesRyan | @O.R.Mapper Of course, that is fine if it is made clear up front. But if the course is mandatory and in a non-technical field, surely it should be passable in the taught language? | |
| Dec 12, 2014 at 12:18 | comment | added | RedSonja | Germany: my bi-lingual (E/D) daughter is studying maths bilingual D/E at a German uni. They are obliged to do some courses in each language. For one course I suggested she would have an advantage because her English is so good, she replied that no, no-one was going to the course because the lecturer, who has no German whatsoever, speaks English so badly that they can't understand him. | |
| Dec 12, 2014 at 12:00 | comment | added | O. R. Mapper | @JamesRyan: As discussed in various other comments and answers here, this very much seems to depend on the place and also the field. In some places and fields, a student who doesn't know English is not considered fit for studying at a university, no matter what language (some of) the courses are taught in. | |
| Dec 12, 2014 at 11:14 | comment | added | JamesRyan | If you are teaching in a language other than english then surely it IS your reponsibility to ensure a reliable translation of the texts into that language is available? | |
| Dec 12, 2014 at 3:58 | comment | added | Michael Hardy | Once I took a math course at the University of Minnesota where the textbook was in French, although I never heard anything but English in the classroom. I think some of my classmates were a bit alarmed. | |
| Dec 12, 2014 at 2:42 | comment | added | Patricia Shanahan | For Art History, it may be necessary to use the books for illustrations, but supported by instruction language notes. As far as not translating the material is concerned, you are, in effect, requiring each student who does not know any English to find some way of getting a translation. | |
| Dec 12, 2014 at 0:39 | comment | added | Taladris | "obviously I cannot and will not translate the material". Depending on your institution or location, you may have to develop your own teaching material (summary and synthesis of the existing English litterature). Books on advanced topics in mathematics are almost all in English, so French lecturers usually develop their own lecture notes. Actually, except during the first class to give additional references, most of my lecturers didn't bother to bring a book during "lectures". | |
| Dec 11, 2014 at 20:37 | comment | added | user541686 | @Joseph: If they are required to take the course to graduate and they were not aware that they needed to know English in order to do so then they really have a point. If you're saying they don't need to do the English readings in order to do well in the class then explicitly tell them so. | |
| Dec 11, 2014 at 20:27 | answer | added | Adam Davis | timeline score: 2 | |
| Dec 11, 2014 at 19:40 | vote | accept | CommunityBot | ||
| Dec 11, 2014 at 19:35 | answer | added | Patricia Shanahan | timeline score: 13 | |
| Dec 11, 2014 at 18:28 | history | edited | ff524 |
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| Dec 11, 2014 at 18:15 | history | edited | user12512 | CC BY-SA 3.0 |
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| Dec 11, 2014 at 18:13 | answer | added | Nate Eldredge | timeline score: 4 | |
| Dec 11, 2014 at 18:06 | comment | added | user12512 | @Szabolcs, you're right. Even I don't require fluency -- just reading comprehension. Yes, all my notes and presentations are in the local language. And yet, many complain. The situation is odd because there's no material but in English. In the end, I don't require English, but if they want to read... | |
| Dec 11, 2014 at 18:04 | comment | added | Szabolcs | I'm trying to make two points: 1. this really depends on the local situation, more detail is needed (e.g. where you're teaching) 2. if it wasn't made clear to them at the time when they were admitted to the programme that English is a requirement, then it's not reasonable for you to ask this for a mandatory course | |
| Dec 11, 2014 at 18:01 | comment | added | Szabolcs | Does your university have any policies on this? Where I did my undergraduate, it would have been unacceptable and unreasonable to require fluency in English for an undergraduate course. Many of the students would not have been able to keep up. There were optional courses on modern topics for which most of the material was only available in English, but the instructor did provide all the notes that we needed in the local language. At the graduate level it was made clear from the beginning that English is a requirement, so those who can't keep up need not apply. | |
| Dec 11, 2014 at 17:59 | answer | added | o.m. | timeline score: 23 | |
| Dec 11, 2014 at 17:56 | comment | added | user12512 | @Szabolcs, it's an undergraduate course. | |
| Dec 11, 2014 at 17:54 | comment | added | Szabolcs | Is this an undergraduate or a graduate level course? | |
| Dec 11, 2014 at 17:30 | comment | added | user12512 | @jeremyjjbrown, yes, the first exam really does make things clear for them, but alas, I have the impression that their thought is, "Why on Earth is this a mandatory course"? | |
| Dec 11, 2014 at 17:28 | comment | added | user12512 | @PatriciaShanahan, the normal situation in my institution is: even if there is a better text in another language, they use what is available. Even if what you have in the local language is mediocre. Sometimes this attitude even extends to graduate degrees. | |
| Dec 11, 2014 at 17:26 | comment | added | user12512 | @ChrisLively, actually it's not rude to tell them that; they just can't believe it when they see all readings are in English. Way into the semester, they still can't believe it. | |
| Dec 11, 2014 at 17:23 | comment | added | jeremyjjbrown | I'd think their grade on the first quiz on that material would explain it nicely. | |
| Dec 11, 2014 at 15:55 | comment | added | O. R. Mapper | @StephanKolassa: My guess is that if anything, there is a legal requirement that a degree must be achievable without German-language courses, to allow for a flawless transition of European students across Bologna countries. (But, no, I don't really think such a legal requirement exists in Germany currently. Students are simply expected to be good enough at English to be able to attend any given course, no matter whether it's given in German or in English. At least, that is my impression from CS and probably all engineering disciplines.) | |
| Dec 11, 2014 at 15:28 | comment | added | Stephan Kolassa | @PatriciaShanahan: in graduate math, much specialized literature only exists in English. For instance, I wouldn't know of a single German-language textbook on multiple complex variables or complex geometry. We used an English-language one that my (German) professor had written. Translations make little sense in such a specialized topic, where the worldwide market is already extremely small. | |
| Dec 11, 2014 at 15:25 | comment | added | Stephan Kolassa | Interesting discussion here. In Germany, there is a trend towards offering entire courses in English because of what jakebeal writes. I don't know whether there are legal requirements that a degree must be achievable with German-language courses. If so, this would be state law, since higher ed is the states' legal responsibility. | |
| Dec 11, 2014 at 15:22 | comment | added | Patricia Shanahan | Is this a normal situation in your institution? Are there other courses (other than foreign language, history ,and similar) that depend on foreign language texts? | |
| Dec 11, 2014 at 15:19 | answer | added | Name | timeline score: 5 | |
| Dec 11, 2014 at 14:23 | comment | added | ChrisLively | Why do you consider it rude to tell them up front that reading English is required? It seems rude to not tell them up front. | |
| Dec 11, 2014 at 14:12 | history | tweeted | twitter.com/#!/StackAcademia/status/543045748078964736 | ||
| Dec 11, 2014 at 13:49 | answer | added | jakebeal | timeline score: 24 | |
| Dec 11, 2014 at 12:59 | comment | added | user12512 | No, it's not an official requirement in the department I teach. But in the entrance exam, it is. | |
| Dec 11, 2014 at 12:50 | comment | added | laika | Just for curiosity, is English an official requirement in their University? In mine, for example, we couldn't graduate before passing an English test | |
| Dec 11, 2014 at 12:38 | answer | added | Stephan Kolassa | timeline score: 46 | |
| Dec 11, 2014 at 12:32 | comment | added | user12512 | I do teach in their native language. It is mandatory that I do so. But all the texts are in English. There is simply no publication in my field in their native language. | |
| Dec 11, 2014 at 12:30 | comment | added | M. B. | Can you elaborate on the fact that it is their duty to read in English? It is rather an interesting situation; in other countries (such as in Czech Republic) it is the other way around, with teaching in the native language being mandatory for a public school. | |
| Dec 11, 2014 at 12:15 | history | asked | user12512 | CC BY-SA 3.0 |