Timeline for PhD program but no funding?
Current License: CC BY-SA 4.0
18 events
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| Oct 23 at 8:07 | comment | added | MisterMiyagi | This answer would benefit from restricting the message to specific fields. Yes, STEM positions usually involve some payment because we compete with industry. No, this is not universally true and in many domains it is normal to have little to no funding. | |
| Oct 21 at 12:47 | comment | added | Vosoni | I know that the situation in the humanities is very different, but a short Google search is enough to see that in physics the situation in Spain is very similar. For example, here is an ad for an open PhD position in Barcelona that has very similar conditions to what I am used to: scholarshipdb.net/scholarships-in-Spain/… | |
| Oct 21 at 12:44 | comment | added | Vosoni | @MSalters - In Germany, the doctorate and employment are essentially separate. Of course, you can write a thesis and submit it to the university without ever visiting the institution. However, in order to obtain results for your thesis, you would normally need to do research (at least in physics), which has to be done in a laboratory. It is common practice for this work to be done for the university and paid for, but you are then allowed to use the results in your thesis. | |
| Oct 21 at 12:26 | comment | added | MSalters | @Vosoni: That first statement is pretty much untrue in the entire EU. Working on a volunteer project is universally allowed. You might be thinking about employment, but in the EU PhD positions are considered to be a part of education (national competence) instead of the internal labor market (EU competence). Reading papers in perparation for a pHD would be entirely legal without a contract; lab access is a specific other matter. Affiliation is an academic convenience, not a legal matter. | |
| Oct 21 at 12:24 | comment | added | Vosoni | @BryanKrause - Not being clear about whether a PhD program is paid or not is already a scam, in my opinion. If it is not paid, there should be a corresponding contract that states (ideally with big red letters on the first page) that the student is expected to do research work for the faculty and publish papers for them without getting paid. | |
| Oct 21 at 12:18 | comment | added | Vosoni | @MSalters - I am by no means a lawyer, and I have little to no experience with PhD programmes outside Germany. Nevertheless, working on a project without any official status or contract (even if it means no payment) would be considered illegal in most European countries. Doing PhD research without any kind of agreement with the lab (which is not the same as enrolling as a PhD student at the university) risks not having insurance in case of lab accidents, and whenever a scientific result is published, it is not clear why the PhD student should list that lab as his/her affiliation. | |
| Oct 21 at 12:01 | comment | added | Vosoni | You are certainly right about the education, but we are talking here about the employment and salary. Whether or not you are employed and are getting a salary (which is typical for PhD students in Germany) or some sort of stipend should be based on written contracts. The situation when someone moves to another country or city to do a PhD but not knowing if they are paid or not, under what conditions, and from what date sounds to me like a violation of the employment regulations. For foreigners, they have consequences, in particular, for getting a Schengen visa, so should be common in Europe. | |
| Oct 21 at 10:08 | comment | added | MSalters | The expectation in the first sentence is misguided. Education is a national competence, not a European one. (Sometimes it's not even national, e.g. in Germany it's not a federal matter). Therefore there's no reason to assume equal rules across the EU. There are common concepts, e.g. the entire notion of universities, professors and PhD, but even those are not specific to the EU. | |
| Oct 20 at 21:03 | comment | added | ZeroTheHero | @BryanKrause absolutely. (some) universities are desperate for funding and will be economical with the consequences to a student of accepting an offer. | |
| Oct 20 at 21:02 | comment | added | Bryan Krause♦ | The scam part would be the promise of funds and then not intending to actually deliver them. An unfunded PhD may be a questionable financial move but if everyone is clear and understanding that the student is funding their own way, I would not call it a scam. Once it comes with a promise, whether it's funding in the short term or an empty promise of a guaranteed job at graduation, scam comes back into play. | |
| Oct 20 at 20:40 | comment | added | ZeroTheHero | What we have with the OP is the oft-repeated situation where one party (the university) holds all the correct information whereas the other party (the student) does not, and in fact often has illusions about the information. | |
| Oct 20 at 20:37 | comment | added | ZeroTheHero | Part of the issue is international students initially view education abroad through the lens of their own education experience. Students habitually underestimate the cost of rent, books, food etc because books are cheap where they live, or they think cheap food is easy to find etc. The ethically grey area of how much information does the institution provide to make a realistic decision, especially as the Uni functions on the false premise that students will understand that no promises mean exactly that, knowing that students often assume they will be funded once accepted. | |
| Oct 20 at 20:23 | comment | added | ZeroTheHero | @Vosoni it's not a scam. A significant proportion of PhDs in the humanities aren't funded because there aren't any grants to support students, so there's nothing illegal or scammy about this. What we don't know if how "unique" is the situation of the OP, and how much did the institution and/or supervisor not proactively disclose. It may be that international students will not understand the funding rules whereas UK students more likely than not will, so one would think those in charge should have a fiducial obligation to be clear with non-UK applicants. This is different from a scam. | |
| Oct 20 at 19:18 | comment | added | Vosoni | @Marianne013 - So you are basically saying that this scam is spread UK-wide. I still think it is not OK not to inform the student about this trap right after he or she applies to this program. | |
| Oct 19 at 22:35 | comment | added | Marianne013 | The UK has the concept of unfunded PhDs. They aren't common (at least not in STEM), but perfect legal and valid. These students are formally enrolled as PhD students with the university and will have to pay the student fees. Beyond that there's no contract. | |
| Oct 19 at 17:46 | comment | added | quarague | @user159941 Yes, there should be some contract agreement in writing that specifies you are a PhD student. Even if you are an unpaid PhD student, there would still be a contract that explicitely says so. | |
| Oct 19 at 15:41 | comment | added | user159941 | Thanks @Vosoni. So you are saying that I should have received a contract of funding or stipend with my admission? And that is the norm in the EU. | |
| Oct 19 at 13:58 | history | answered | Vosoni | CC BY-SA 4.0 |