Timeline for What can I tell a student I am mentoring who claims: "I want to do pure mathematics because it is superior to any other subject in the world"?
Current License: CC BY-SA 4.0
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| Apr 9 at 4:06 | comment | added | civilstat | "If he is unmoved by all of such stories, then he may be a true mathematician" -- oh no no no. This just reinforces the arrogant belief that pure math is "better" than other fields, and only the chosen ones "deserve" to work in pure math. Furthermore, it discourages talented students who like math itself, but who don't want to work in a field surrounded by arrogant colleagues. Instead of being seen as a voice of sanity and humility, these students are derided as "worse" mathematicians who just couldn't cut it. Do you really believe that yourself? Do you want your students to believe that? | |
| Apr 6 at 19:37 | comment | added | cag51♦ | In simpler words: I am sometimes surprised when I learn which of my comments ended up being important for another person's life. If I had known they would take my words so seriously, I would have put more thought into what I said! Whereas quite often when I give very good advice and I am sure that I am right, the person ignores me and has to figure it out "the hard way." | |
| Apr 6 at 19:26 | comment | added | No One | @cag51 May I ask a clarification of your last sentence a bit? Sorry I didn't get what you meant... random comments, least remembered? | |
| Apr 6 at 19:18 | comment | added | cag51♦ | I'll also add that it's very hard to predict the effect of your advice. I once had a student who was mathematically certain to fail my course, but when I told them this and encouraged them to petition for a late withdrawal, they insisted on remaining in the course and trying to salvage their grade (which I had already told them was literally impossible -- and I would know, I was the freaking instructor). On the other hand, I occasionally learn years later that random comments I made off-the-cuff and never gave a second thought to ended up being at least remembered many years later. | |
| Apr 6 at 19:12 | comment | added | No One | @cag51 I think you are right. Maybe I should just stay silent on this. In most of the time, "giving advice" is difficult and never appreciated. If you give people "bad" advice (even if it is benign), people may still hate you in the future. | |
| Apr 6 at 19:10 | comment | added | cag51♦ | Setting aside the rest of it, the logical flaw is here: If he is unmoved by all of such stories, then he may be a true mathematician. Well, this could be because he has correctly assessed his own aptitude, but it could also be because he is stubborn or he doesn't care what you think. And there is risk in the other direction -- what if your student does have what it takes to be a brilliant mathematician, but they are so discouraged by your warnings that they give up before they even try? I try to avoid giving advice -- especially unsolicited advice -- unless I am damn sure I am right. | |
| Apr 6 at 18:48 | comment | added | No One | @CalebStanford I am not, not yet (this is just a suggestion of a friend from the lunch we had). I only want to help him to stay modest a little. I also don't want him to discover that pure math is actually not suitable for him at the end of his PhD. Too late. That is why I want to hear your opinion. | |
| Apr 6 at 18:44 | comment | added | Caleb Stanford | Why are you trying to "test" your student? Besides, if doing pure math is really such a hard and difficult life, that seems more likely to support your student's position than to defeat it. | |
| Apr 6 at 18:44 | comment | added | Anyon | @NoOne but this advice about the difficulty frankly applies to many fields. It's worth seriously considering these aspects before committing to a PhD in general, of course, but maybe it's more likely to address a different type of arrogance ("I'm obviously good enough to make this a career" vs "pure math is superior"). | |
| Apr 6 at 17:58 | history | edited | No One | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
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| Apr 6 at 17:56 | comment | added | No One | @cag51 It is relevant to this "arrogance" thing, since my friend told me the best way to suppress his arrogance is to tell him some hard truth about pure math --- he would be more modest if he knows the difficulty. | |
| Apr 6 at 17:54 | comment | added | cag51♦ | This seems sort of orthogonal to the main question. Yes, it’s hard to get paid to do pure math, your student should definitely hear that as many times as possible from as many sources as possible. But the main question asked about the student’s “arrogance” about math being the only worthwhile academic subject | |
| Apr 6 at 17:41 | history | edited | No One | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
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| Apr 6 at 17:28 | history | edited | No One | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
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| Apr 6 at 17:22 | comment | added | Moishe Kohan | This is what I tell graduate students who want to work with me. I also tell them after the meeting to go home and think seriously about this. | |
| Apr 6 at 17:05 | history | answered | No One | CC BY-SA 4.0 |