Timeline for Is it ethical if I claim the first authorship as I own the idea and the implementation but I do not test the method myself?
Current License: CC BY-SA 4.0
21 events
| when toggle format | what | by | license | comment | |
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| Oct 25, 2023 at 15:00 | comment | added | EarlGrey | @penelope: see my answer addressing your point. | |
| Oct 25, 2023 at 14:33 | comment | added | penelope | @EarlGrey I absolutely agree that investigating a new method for which we "don't know how well it works compared to existing methods" is perfectly suitable for a BSc thesis (maybe even too much?) The scope issue in my mind is that the BSc student would be working on a method for which the implementation has already been provided, the datasets have been selected and the experimental design has been completed. The only expectation seems to be to run the experiments -- the OP says "I will summarise the results", so not even analysing the results is expected of the BSc student. | |
| Oct 24, 2023 at 13:36 | answer | added | EarlGrey | timeline score: 0 | |
| Oct 24, 2023 at 13:30 | comment | added | EarlGrey | @penelope "I don't know how well it works compared to the existing methods" seems just fine for a Bachelor student, for example if they automate the testing or if they look for analytical reasons behind the superior performance of the newly proposed method. Let's stop asking too much from Bachelor students thesis. | |
| Oct 19, 2023 at 8:07 | answer | added | gnasher729 | timeline score: 1 | |
| Oct 19, 2023 at 8:01 | comment | added | gnasher729 | Why wouldn't that student wait for your implementation to be published, then write about your implementation and how well it works, citing your publication obviously? "About the results of a method published by Neuchatel". And get the sole authorship. You will publish your implementation in a way that allows this, right? | |
| Oct 18, 2023 at 22:52 | answer | added | Ken C | timeline score: 1 | |
| Oct 17, 2023 at 14:42 | comment | added | user128581 | As the situation is described, I think the ethical problem is not with OP taking first authorship on the paper, but with setting an undergrad a dissertation topic that doesn't afford them due opportunity to demonstrate the skills required for a good dissertation grade. | |
| Oct 17, 2023 at 12:31 | comment | added | terdon | What is your field? Does your field give importance to the last author? In my field, biology, I would expect you to be last author (depending on who else is involved, who the PI is etc) and the student to be first. | |
| Oct 17, 2023 at 8:53 | answer | added | A. Non | timeline score: -1 | |
| Oct 16, 2023 at 19:58 | history | became hot network question | |||
| Oct 16, 2023 at 14:23 | comment | added | penelope | Another thing you say is "an undergrad student could get their BSc dissertation from it". But you say the implementation is already done, you've already picked the datasets and completed the experimental design. That doesn't sound like a lot of intellectual work. In fact, the only part of intellectual work you seem to want to pass on to this student is writing -- and that's pretty hard if they don't need to implement or engage with your method, just run some experiments that have been prepared for them. Why do you think this will be enough for a BSc dissertation? Or interesting to the student? | |
| Oct 16, 2023 at 14:19 | comment | added | penelope | You can't really "own" an idea. If you have expressed an idea as a piece of (creative) work, (e.g. a work of art of a piece of code), you that specific expression falls under copyright (automatically), and you can potentially licence it to others. On the other hand, a new invention (defined as a new process, idea, composition of matter) can be patented, but you need to take steps to get through the patenting process. In both cases, the idea (the "eureka" moment where the little light bulb went off and it just "clicked") is not protected in any way -- ideas themselves are cheap. | |
| Oct 16, 2023 at 14:01 | answer | added | Ethan Bolker | timeline score: 21 | |
| Oct 16, 2023 at 13:33 | comment | added | Stephan Kolassa | +1 for thinking about things like this before doing the work. Better than leaving this discussion to later. However, it would good to be open to the possibility that your undergrad (or your supervisor!) might add so much value that they might want to renegotiate this. Plus: are you certain that "first authorship" is a thing in your field? Enough fields always order authors alphabetically. | |
| Oct 16, 2023 at 13:28 | answer | added | Christian Hennig | timeline score: 8 | |
| Oct 16, 2023 at 12:55 | comment | added | Neuchâtel | @user438383 I seriously don't know. That's why I asked this question. | |
| Oct 16, 2023 at 12:45 | comment | added | user438383 | I wonder why you are asking whether this is ethical. It possibly sounds like you know it isn't, but want someone to reassure you that it's OK. | |
| Oct 16, 2023 at 12:41 | comment | added | Jon Custer | If it is that easy to do, seems like you could carve out a little time to just do it. More likely, there will be work to be done by the undergraduate and they will know more than you by the end. Ideas are a dime a dozen. Simple ideas often are not simple. If it is so trivial why do you even want first authorship? | |
| Oct 16, 2023 at 12:03 | history | edited | Neuchâtel | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
added 3 characters in body
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| Oct 16, 2023 at 11:56 | history | asked | Neuchâtel | CC BY-SA 4.0 |