Timeline for Should professors intervene if a student is wearing offensive clothing in their classroom?
Current License: CC BY-SA 3.0
62 events
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| May 27, 2017 at 13:58 | comment | added | G. Bach | Given the recent events around Jordan B. Peterson in Canada and the ridiculous directions the events in Evergreen College surrounding Bret Weinstein are taking in the last couple days, I'm genuinely worried by the lack of principled commitment to free speech that finds so much support in this thread here. Forget the legal technicalities whether wearing an "I hate niggers" shirt to class is covered by a constitutional right to free speech - free speech has to be upheld as long the teacher can reasonably talk/present and his lecture remains audible/visible to the students. | |
| Apr 13, 2017 at 12:49 | history | edited | CommunityBot |
replaced http://academia.stackexchange.com/ with https://academia.stackexchange.com/
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| Jul 13, 2016 at 16:19 | comment | added | HC_ | @penelope Two years later, I better understand why this question is better served without a specific example (image) :) (better late than never!?) | |
| Jul 13, 2016 at 9:54 | comment | added | Don Hatch | ff524 You say "I don't consider that subject to misinterpretation, unless you think I don't know how to identify something that is demeaning and hostile towards women". Unfortunately there's no consensus reality on this one, so I wouldn't take @HC_ 's curious question personally. E.g. many apparently serious and otherwise-reasonable-sounding people believe any sexual intercourse between a man and a woman is demeaning and hostile towards women. Anyway, as has been pointed out, that isn't the point, and I agree with you that posting the slogan here would be counterproductive. | |
| Jul 12, 2016 at 19:03 | comment | added | SnakeDoc | @Suresh There is no such thing as a "Right to not be offended", from the government nor from any institution I'm aware of. Unless the University had an explicit policy against the clothing that person chose to wear, then there's little OP (or anyone) could actually do about it. Sometimes, it's just easier, and best, to grow a thick skin. | |
| Jan 14, 2016 at 10:01 | comment | added | Daniel F | @user781 They are censored forms of offensive words. The following links go to the wikipedia page of the uncensored page: N-word, C-word, F-word | |
| Dec 4, 2015 at 20:49 | comment | added | user44054 | What does that mean N-word, C-word, F-word, etc? | |
| Oct 15, 2015 at 8:21 | answer | added | Peter Bloem | timeline score: 6 | |
| Oct 15, 2015 at 5:53 | answer | added | anonymous | timeline score: 1 | |
| Sep 22, 2014 at 9:45 | answer | added | Alex | timeline score: 4 | |
| Sep 17, 2014 at 4:19 | history | edited | ff524 |
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| Mar 12, 2014 at 6:33 | vote | accept | ff524 | ||
| Mar 9, 2014 at 14:10 | comment | added | gregsan | Dear @ff524, I find fully legitimate your fear of repercussions of direct confrontation of this individual as an offended minority. However I feel the responsibility of any authority figure to uphold the credo of the university in no way diminishes your right and duty as an offended individual to raise your concerns to the proper authorities, which you have not. Surely the Discriminatory Harrassment clause you quoted gives you a case and you will have supporters in your TA's and professors should you seek them out.But you should play a more active role in securing your rights as clearly stated | |
| Mar 8, 2014 at 17:50 | comment | added | Steve Jessop | ... and if it (sadly) turns out that the organization doesn't have procedures and support in place for TAs in such situations, then at least you know for sure not to take a risk. I would hope that this is fairly rare, but it might depend on the country and even on the specific people running particular universities or departments. | |
| Mar 8, 2014 at 17:48 | comment | added | Steve Jessop | "don't feel comfortable (or safe, for that matter) as a woman confronting a male student about an item of clothing that is offensive to women." -- specifically on this point, your employer has a responsibility to help you to handle (and learn to handle) dicey situations in the classroom. Quite aside from their duty of care to you, if you're not comfortable enforcing their rules when acting as their representative, then they have a problem. Knowing the attitude of the organization, its procedures and back-up plans may make you more comfortable. At least you can get informal advice from others. | |
| Mar 7, 2014 at 18:37 | comment | added | user8762 | I apparently don't have enough rep to answer protected questions, so I'll just leave this here. I think professors should have broad authority and discretion to decide whether or not someone gets to wear something in their classroom, based on whether or not the clothing is consistent with the class's objectives, and the school should back him up. It doesn't have to be offensive, it just has to be a distraction (transparent tops, gangsta jeans that fall down to the knees and asses hanging out of the bottom of shorts also fit into this category). | |
| Mar 7, 2014 at 17:45 | comment | added | Travis | @ShreevatsaR Yes, I realized the mistake as I was looking at some of the answers. I think the confusion stems from the idea that the question on the page may not be the question being asked, but this forum is for answering the question on the page, so I accept my earlier comment is irrelevant. | |
| Mar 7, 2014 at 17:29 | comment | added | ShreevatsaR | @Travis: But the question is not about making a judgment on the slogan, and I think it is wise for the OP to leave it unsaid specifically to prevent this discussion from turning into evaluation of the slogan. The question is what to do next, assuming for the sake of question that the slogan is indeed sufficiently hostile. (This forum may indeed consist of "adults capable of discussing the subject matter", but as the subject matter is not the slogan, it is in some doubt whether the adults are capable of recognizing the subject matter in the first place. :-) ) | |
| Mar 7, 2014 at 17:15 | comment | added | Travis | @ff524 Without the content of the slogan in question, anyone attempting to make any judgement on said slogan is left chasing gremlins. This is responsible forum populated by adults capable of discussing the subject matter. No good comes from obfuscation. | |
| Mar 7, 2014 at 14:24 | comment | added | canadmos | This was posted two days ago, so I assume that the incident has come and gone. In this case, I would speak to the prof and have him construct a general email to the class list reminding students about not wearing that type of offensive clothing to the class. If he (or anyone) does it again, then escalate and either i) call security or ii) simply tell the student that their clothing is not appropriate to wear in this class. | |
| Mar 7, 2014 at 0:02 | comment | added | penelope | @Hc_ Sorry, didn't mean to seem aggressive. The meta question wasn't open because of your comment, or even just this question. And, the OP did say several times in the comments she believed it not constructive to post an offensive slogan on the site... you probably simply didn't see it before, but after all the turmoil on this question, I was too fast to jump to conclusions. Sorry :/ | |
| Mar 6, 2014 at 19:59 | comment | added | HC_ | OP: Ok :). @penelope Just out of curiosity, nothing more. I did not say anything to imply that I was questioning her interpretation, as the question is one of principle; I think it is rather unfair of you to jump to conclusions like that and assume I was questioning OP's interpretation or merit. I just wanted to see what a male engineering student would mistakenly think was OK to wear to class. | |
| Mar 6, 2014 at 17:01 | answer | added | user1482 | timeline score: 18 | |
| Mar 6, 2014 at 10:41 | comment | added | penelope | @HC_ Why request every single detail from the OP? We should respect people's choice to be (partially) anonymous, rather then questioning their interpretation because of incomplete details. Question is clear (and even more general) without it. I've opened a meta question asking, among other things, why every single detail should be needed? | |
| Mar 6, 2014 at 8:17 | history | protected | Pete L. Clark | ||
| Mar 6, 2014 at 7:36 | answer | added | HdS | timeline score: -5 | |
| Mar 6, 2014 at 7:07 | answer | added | David | timeline score: 10 | |
| Mar 6, 2014 at 1:38 | answer | added | Liana | timeline score: 109 | |
| Mar 5, 2014 at 23:23 | comment | added | ff524 | @HC_ I believe it would not be constructive to post an offensive slogan on this site, even for illustrative purposes. | |
| Mar 5, 2014 at 22:45 | comment | added | HC_ | Can you provide specifics on the shirt's content, now that you've gotten a good amount of unbiased (in terms of content) feedback? | |
| Mar 5, 2014 at 20:03 | comment | added | user781 | This question somewhat obscures the fact that the other students, especially the male ones in case of a misogynistic message, should also intervene. Every adult has a responsibility, and the particular offensive message always puts some demographic on the defensive who know what kind of response they will get if they complain. University students are the same age as employees who are expected not to harass their coworkers. | |
| Mar 5, 2014 at 19:42 | answer | added | Adam Davis | timeline score: 7 | |
| Mar 5, 2014 at 17:35 | comment | added | ff524 | @Penguin_Knight That is a very good point - the shirt in question used a slang term for male genitalia that is very well-known in the U.S., but might not be known everywhere else. | |
| Mar 5, 2014 at 17:29 | comment | added | Penguin_Knight | Not to side with your professor who didn't intervene back then, but as someone not growing up in the US and not very well acquainted with the slang culture, I could have been totally oblivious about whatever shirt you're wearing. I believe students who feel offended should contact the TA and professor as well, instead of hoping for an a-ha moment from the professor. | |
| Mar 5, 2014 at 17:27 | comment | added | Suresh | I'm not really sure the outcome should hinge on whether the people here believe that the display was "sufficiently misogynistic" or not. Why not just take as stipulated that it indeed was: the question is really about what to do next, and that's a reasonable question to ask. | |
| Mar 5, 2014 at 16:12 | answer | added | Irwin | timeline score: 22 | |
| Mar 5, 2014 at 15:56 | comment | added | Relaxed | @AaronHall Silliness check: I'm curious if there is any evidence of anything remotely similar happening with any regularity if the genders were swapped. Also, that still wouldn't be equivalent. | |
| Mar 5, 2014 at 14:45 | comment | added | ff524 | @AaronHall You mean if a woman was wearing the misogynistic shirt? Or a woman was wearing a misandric shirt? I probably wouldn't have felt personally traumatized in the second case, but I still think an authority figure should intervene. | |
| Mar 5, 2014 at 14:41 | comment | added | Aaron Hall | Double-standard check: I'm curious if the you would have been just as offended if the genders were swapped. | |
| Mar 5, 2014 at 14:22 | comment | added | ff524 | @Łukasz웃Lツ I said the "item of clothing in question contained a slogan and image that is indubitably demeaning and hostile towards women" - I don't consider that subject to misinterpretation, unless you think I don't know how to identify something that is demeaning and hostile towards women. | |
| Mar 5, 2014 at 14:20 | comment | added | user5657 | @ff524 you don't have to post the message, but you shouldn't leave the place for misinterpretations too. If the message really calls for killing, your collegue may be potential candidate for massacre, so calling police/FBI/military/whoever would be recommended ASAP. However, it's hard to say without knowing the amount of hate in the message. Well, assuming you're living in country where guns are easily available. This also makes a difference. On the other side, hate/aversion to women may be a symptom of heavy depression, that could result in suicide attempts etc. | |
| Mar 5, 2014 at 14:19 | comment | added | ff524 | @Łukasz웃Lツ Also: harassment/misogyny is not restricted to "violent" messages that call for physically harming women. | |
| Mar 5, 2014 at 14:17 | comment | added | ff524 | @Łukasz웃Lツ You can ask about this on meta; if the consensus there is that it's OK to post this message for illustrative purposes, I will. Otherwise, I won't. | |
| Mar 5, 2014 at 14:15 | comment | added | user5657 | @ff524 it's important for people to know what they are talking about... At least you should specify the class of the text. Using the word mysogynic, one could suppose it's the hate speach, so it calls to violence or extermination, or to removing women from society. However, AFAIK, mysogynic ideas came only from old, embittered thinkers, and are unlikely to be seen on someone's T-Shirt. I've heard about androgynous organization (general hate towards mankind, in single case hate against men). | |
| Mar 5, 2014 at 14:06 | answer | added | posdef | timeline score: 5 | |
| Mar 5, 2014 at 14:03 | comment | added | ff524 | @Łukasz웃Lツ I believe it would not be constructive to post an offensive slogan on this site, even for illustrative purposes. | |
| Mar 5, 2014 at 13:13 | comment | added | user5657 | There's no information in the post that the offense has happened in US, so refering to US laws seems premature. However, there's also missing important information of the character of the t-shirt, only the interpretation from the OP. It will make a big difference if it was really some mysogynic text (hate speach, threat of violence/extermination) or only OP has interpreted it as hostile. | |
| Mar 5, 2014 at 7:38 | history | tweeted | twitter.com/#!/StackAcademia/status/441115423078363136 | ||
| Mar 5, 2014 at 7:13 | answer | added | Pete L. Clark | timeline score: 89 | |
| Mar 5, 2014 at 7:01 | answer | added | T K | timeline score: 11 | |
| Mar 5, 2014 at 6:59 | comment | added | Pete L. Clark | Even if the school is public, it does not mean that the classroom is a public space that anyone has a right to (i) occupy and (ii) speak unrestrictedly in. For instance you need to stop talking when the instructor asks you to. Failure to behave appropriately in the classroom (as determined by university policy and the instructor) is grounds for being dismissed from the classroom and, if the behavior is especially flagrant and/or repeated, the course. | |
| Mar 5, 2014 at 6:47 | answer | added | Suresh | timeline score: 25 | |
| Mar 5, 2014 at 6:43 | history | edited | ff524 | CC BY-SA 3.0 |
added definition of discriminatory harassment
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| Mar 5, 2014 at 6:41 | comment | added | Suresh | I don't really see how free speech comes into play here. The first amendment in the US is about the GOVERNMENT not restricting freedom of expression. If for example this is a private school, then there are no blanket free speech exemptions. In any case, that's not the question being asked. | |
| Mar 5, 2014 at 6:37 | comment | added | Shion | There are some very interesting case laws in the US Court system about this since it falls in the twilight zone between absolute free speech and the need to balance an anti-discriminatory environment. The Supreme Court has not issued an final judgment regarding this issue but scholars except this to be decided with some finality in the next 10 years. | |
| Mar 5, 2014 at 6:29 | comment | added | ff524 | @Shion Discriminatory harassment: "Written or graphic material which demeans or shows hostility or aversion toward an individual or group because of race, color, religion, gender, national origin, age or disability" | |
| Mar 5, 2014 at 6:24 | comment | added | Shion | Having said this, I think that if you feel that concerned then you should definitely report this incident to the administration and let them deal with it. Specific to the US, many such similar cases with free speech and clothing messages have been struck down by Federal Appeals Courts on grounds of violating the First Amendment and many such cases are now making the rounds of the justice system. | |
| Mar 5, 2014 at 6:23 | comment | added | Shion | Why is something automatically hostile if it is an unpopular view? Free speech laws are specifically meant to protect unpopular and minority views. If all that this student is doing is wearing a t-shirt with a message, then I don't think this should be automatically construed as being discriminatory/hostile. | |
| Mar 5, 2014 at 6:14 | comment | added | ff524 | @Shion The attire certainly violates university policy on discriminatory harassment, and the professor should care if his classroom is a hostile environment to some students. | |
| Mar 5, 2014 at 6:12 | comment | added | Shion | Doesn't this really depend upon the free speech laws of that particular country and/or specific university/college dress codes? If that particular attire is against any of these principles, then a professor may object, otherwise, I don't see why the professor/TA should care. | |
| Mar 5, 2014 at 5:05 | history | edited | ff524 |
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| Mar 5, 2014 at 4:47 | history | asked | ff524 | CC BY-SA 3.0 |