Timeline for Thoughts on if it's possible to succeed in math @ PhD level w/o natural ability in quant reasoning?
Current License: CC BY-SA 4.0
17 events
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| Dec 13, 2019 at 8:00 | comment | added | quarague | @KevinCarlson We seem to have different opinions on how to measure a successful math phd. You said that only very few end up with a pure maths career, why I interpret as becoming a professor with some strong research focus. It is true that only very few succeed in that and that a phd from one of the strongest universities is the most viable path there. But you can also have a very satisfying career as a math lecturer at a liberal arts college or do some math heavy industry job. In both cases a math phd from a mid tier university will open job opportunities you wouldn't have without a phd. | |
| Dec 13, 2019 at 1:35 | history | edited | Allure | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
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| Dec 12, 2019 at 23:05 | comment | added | Raydot | I'm surprised how many people in this thread seem to be unaware of how much universities are turning away from admissions testing these days. Sure, they might hold in general cases regarding a specific type of student but it's become more and more widely recognized that they only measure a particular set of skills. For instance: insidehighered.com/admissions/article/2019/10/07/… | |
| Dec 12, 2019 at 19:16 | comment | added | Allure | @mai the question's been edited since I wrote this answer - it was originally just the first two paragraphs, which I (incorrectly) assumed meant the GRE verbal & quantitative scores. | |
| Dec 12, 2019 at 17:03 | comment | added | Kevin Carlson | @Cdela Which claim, precisely? | |
| Dec 12, 2019 at 16:52 | comment | added | Kevin Carlson | @cdela There certainly exist people who outperform their department. In math, it’s very difficult to do research that speaks for itself in this way without being constantly exposed to the mathematicians who are doing leading research-everything is not in books. I don’t know anything about physics, but I would point out that your friend has apparently lived in three states and two continents over four consecutive temporary and underpaid positions-and indeed is probably outperforming most of her peers! If that’s what she wanted, more power to her, but many people find such a life unfulfilling. | |
| Dec 12, 2019 at 16:50 | comment | added | Cdela | @KevinCarlson well, I guess I would have to ask you to produce the data to support your claim. | |
| Dec 12, 2019 at 16:47 | comment | added | Kevin Carlson | @quarague Yes, I am, although I don’t know if I’d endorse the 90% number precisely. It may lessen the harshness that I don’t put all the blame on the students. Even in top math programs, the great majority of students do not go on to pure math careers. | |
| Dec 12, 2019 at 16:35 | comment | added | Chuu | @quarague I cannot speak for Math, but there is good evidence that at least the majority of Law students have made a poor decision. | |
| Dec 12, 2019 at 16:29 | comment | added | quarague | @KevinCarlson So you are advising that say 90% of all pure math phd students or law students actually made a bad career decision? That sounds a bit harsh. | |
| Dec 12, 2019 at 16:29 | comment | added | Kevin Carlson | @quarague The rest of your comment is fine, but the point is that the calculations on the general GRE are very easy. Math PhDs are almost always pretty good at all of math. | |
| Dec 12, 2019 at 16:27 | comment | added | Kevin Carlson | @quarague If someone’s going for a PhD, I assume they’re going for the top programs. In pure math weaker programs have a rather poor career outlook. I suppose someone might get an applied PhD at a weaker program to qualify for a government or industry job, but my sense is that even outside of academia most PhD-level positions are so competitive that if one can’t get into a top program, it’s likely not worth it on career grounds-assuming that’s the basis of the decision, of course. In the same way, I advise people who can’t get into a top-14 law school not to go to law school. | |
| Dec 12, 2019 at 16:21 | comment | added | quarague | @KevinCarlson You are aware that MIT is one of the very top universities in the US? I could also image that engineering has a bigger emphasis on the GRE than pure math, because engineers need to actually calculate a lot more than mathematicians and that is essentially what the GRE math tests. Whether you are good at understanding and proving things is not part of the GRE math, a lot harder to test and a more important for a math phd than being able to calculate well. | |
| Dec 12, 2019 at 16:17 | comment | added | Kevin Carlson | @quarague I don’t think that’s very accurate. 167/170 is the average math GRE score for admitted MIT engineering PhD students; I think it is very close to true that “the rest score slightly below that” for top programs. I would say the math phds who aren’t very good-to the moderate standard of the GRE-at high school math are few and far between, and the majority of the latter could become very good by reviewing the boring basics for a few hours. | |
| Dec 12, 2019 at 16:04 | comment | added | quarague | Note that there is a big difference between the math section of the general GRE (which tests high school level math) and the specialized GRE math (which tests all the calculus sequence and a little more). Nevertheless there is a nontrivial proportion of pure math phds who score 100% perfect on the GRE math but this is by no means necessary and it is not true that the rest scores just slightly below that. A lot of math phds are very good at things tested in GRE math, some are not. Both can get very good and successful math phds. | |
| Dec 12, 2019 at 15:38 | comment | added | mai | I believe the "63rd percentile" figure that the OP mentions is regarding the IQ test mentioned in the fifth paragraph, since they later say "[r]egarding the GRE, I expect I’d be able to score in a percentile on par with other prospective applicants", which implies they haven't taken the GRE yet. | |
| Dec 12, 2019 at 6:39 | history | answered | Allure | CC BY-SA 4.0 |