Timeline for My advisor's new student copied parts of my PhD thesis; advisor doesn't care. What to do?
Current License: CC BY-SA 4.0
19 events
| when toggle format | what | by | license | comment | |
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| Dec 10, 2018 at 7:15 | comment | added | mathreadler | @BenVoigt sure, that sounds obvious. | |
| Dec 9, 2018 at 4:03 | comment | added | cag51♦ | Agree with Ben. Also, this may be field dependent: for a technician (e.g., a PhD acting as a programer or chemical synthesizer), useful skills are most important, however, if you are constantly bidding for Government funding to do original research, a PhD can be an important qualification in its own right, even "in industry". | |
| Dec 9, 2018 at 0:06 | comment | added | Ben Voigt | @mathreadler: It is, however, absolutely certain that both a PhD and no PhD are better than a revoked PhD. | |
| Dec 8, 2018 at 14:35 | comment | added | mathreadler | @cag51 "however, a PhD is (slightly) better than no PhD". not necessarily. If you spend so many percent of your energy to fulfill the formal qualifications wrt writing papers, passing mandatory courses et.c. and then very few percent actually honing your practically useful skills.. Such a finished candidate can be less valuable in an industry setting than one who went 95% on practically useful skills and missed one or two requirements for finishing. | |
| Dec 8, 2018 at 12:17 | comment | added | Creed | @qsp.. "From the time someone starts working in industry, his/her PhD becomes irrelevant. Suppose the new student is working in company X, will he be fired if his PhD is revoked? No. Will his next company care if his PhD is revoked? No, they only care how many years he has worked for company X with which title." I worked in industry after I graduated and my employer would have been very disappointed if my PhD was revoked. I think I'd have lost my job. | |
| Dec 8, 2018 at 8:03 | comment | added | cag51♦ | At any rate, I think I've said my peace...cheers! | |
| Dec 8, 2018 at 8:02 | comment | added | cag51♦ | Not offended, just pointing out that I am not guessing, I personally am involved with such decisions. I've never personally learned that someone's PhD was revoked, don't think that happens often. I am just disagreeing with your statement that someone in industry wouldn't care if their PhD was revoked. I agree with you that a PhD itself may not be required; however, a PhD is (slightly) better than no PhD, especially for applicants with less than 10-15 years experience; further, a revoked PhD raises many questions (though one could certainly try to avoid mentioning this degree without lying). | |
| Dec 8, 2018 at 7:08 | comment | added | sean | @cag51 I do not intend to lecture anybody about anything. If you feel offended, so I'm sorry. "I agree that a PhD is rarely required", that's what I'm trying to say. So what do you not agree? You didn't answer my question "do you have an example when somebody's industrial career was damaged because their PhD is revoked? Or this is just what you guess". | |
| Dec 8, 2018 at 6:42 | comment | added | cag51♦ | It's a bit curious that you lecture me on what industry values, given that I am an academic researcher "in industry" and am involved in hiring decisions, etc. :-) That said, I agree that a PhD is rarely required; we will hire someone with a good background even without a PhD. The potential problems for my company, as an example, are: (1) I expect resumes to go back 10+ years -- if I see time in a university consistent with grad school, but no PhD, I will try to figure out what happened, and (2) security clearance investigations will absolutely deny a clearance over this. | |
| Dec 8, 2018 at 5:22 | comment | added | sean | @cag51: do you have an example when somebody's industrial career was damaged because their PhD is revoked? Or this is just what you guess. After you start working in industry, you can just leave the PhD degree out of your resume. I have many friends with PhD, who are reporting to manager/staff engineer without a PhD. In Silicon Valley, if you want to lure someone out of their current position, you need to pay at least 10% (often more) higher than their current compensation, whether they have a PhD in the past is irrelevant. Just leave it out of your resume if you don't like. | |
| Dec 7, 2018 at 21:53 | comment | added | cag51♦ | Thanks for your update. But, I still think your last paragraph goes too far. My company does care who has a PhD (though you're right that experience / accomplishments are more important). In particular, if you claimed to have a PhD when you started, you would either have to tell us that it was revoked (bad) or we might find out independently (worse). We could certainly fire someone over this, or at the least it would affect their career trajectory. It's true that we might never notice -- but it is still a "bomb" as you describe (and it will turn up in a security clearance investigation). | |
| Dec 7, 2018 at 15:59 | comment | added | David Richerby | "Your advisor's response is understandable. He was probably too busy (or lazy) to read the theses." How is it "understandable" for an advisor to be too busy or too lazy to read their student's thesis? How is it "understandable" for an advisor to "advise" a student through a whole PhD without ensuring that the student knows what plagiarism is? | |
| Dec 7, 2018 at 10:58 | comment | added | Frank Hopkins | With regard of non-academic work, it highly depends. There are quite some politicians who lost their position when it became clear they heavily plagiarised in their PhD | |
| Dec 7, 2018 at 10:57 | comment | added | Frank Hopkins | Gain nothing? Maybe not, but you loose scientific integrity, personally and generally. If you don't speak up about plagiarism, you cannot expect anyone else to. So you're making it okay. You don't need to go atomic, but saying this is a non-issue is endorsing plagiarism, plenty to loose from that. | |
| Dec 7, 2018 at 8:03 | history | edited | sean | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
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| Dec 7, 2018 at 0:21 | comment | added | JBentley | @WolfgangBangerth Yes, and I don't buy for one second that someone who has got all the way to the point of completing a PhD "may not have known what plagiarism was". That is complete nonsense. | |
| Dec 7, 2018 at 0:09 | comment | added | Wolfgang Bangerth | I think saying that it's a "mistake" is a rather bold understatement. Copying whole parts of a PhD thesis is about the biggest ethical mis-step you can make as an academic. | |
| Dec 6, 2018 at 22:24 | comment | added | cag51♦ | I was with you until your last paragraph. If OP reports this, the student could have to do revisions or risk losing their PhD (or maybe they will lose their PhD outright); even someone in industry would not want their PhD revoked (as then they could not claim it on their resume). Conversely, it's not clear how this would "haunt him forever" in academia -- if this is settled quietly, and especially if OP doesn't speak up, no one is likely to know that there was ever an issue. | |
| Dec 6, 2018 at 20:52 | history | answered | sean | CC BY-SA 4.0 |