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Assume that the candidate is a graduate of a good state school, e.g. North Carolina or Ohio State. Then I want to explore this candidate's probable viability in getting into "second tier" graduate schools, say 15-30th in a given field using the following academic combinations.

The best combination would be something like a 3.9 GPA and a graduate exam (GRE or LSAT) score of 175 or better (out of 180). Assuming research and activities were competitive (and are held constant between candidates), would these candidates be able to do better than second tier (say top 15)?

A second best combination might be something like a 3.5 GPA and a 175 exam score or a 3.9 GPA and a 165 exam score. How would this candidate "stack up" for a second tier grad school? Are the two sets equivalent or is one combination decidedly more competitive than the other?

Third best would be something like 3.5 GPA and a 165 exam score. Would "second tier" grad school be a reach for such a person?

If you changed "good state school" to "HYPSM" and kept exam scores and GPA constant, would that change matters?

Explanation: Unlike the other question, this one is not about getting students in from the "bottom." This question is about how the TOP three (or so) categories sort themselves out.

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  • It probably depends much much more on the research and activities.
    – knzhou
    May 16, 2021 at 17:16
  • @krizhou: The question asks you to assume that research is 1) "competitive," and 2) "held constant" between the candidates, so that answers can focus on relative exam scores and GPAs.
    – Tom Au
    May 16, 2021 at 17:19
  • @astronat: No. See my explanation (new last paragraph).
    – Tom Au
    May 16, 2021 at 17:20
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    graduate admissions is done holistically and almost entirely on subjective factors.
    – Alexander Woo
    May 16, 2021 at 17:39
  • This is a very important and common question. Unfortunately, the answer is usually "it depends." Our compromise has been to redirect all the "what does it take to get into school X" questions to the "How does the admissions process work....?" canonical question linked above. I realize this "duplicate" question only partially addresses what you want to know, but since there is no magic formula we can give you, giving helpful answers to questions like this is an ongoing challenge for us; sorry we can't be more helpful
    – cag51 ♦
    May 16, 2021 at 21:12

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I'm presuming that you are referring to PhD admissions in the U.S.? I should note that GPA and GRE are relatively low on the admissions criteria as far as I am aware. There are other (more important) factors involved, such as research/teaching experience, statement of purpose, and especially letters of recommendation.

GPA can only help up until a certain point (usually around 3.3-3.7). Once you are above this threshold, you are better focusing on other aspects of your application. Especially since PhD programs are all about research and publications, focus on getting as much of that as you can, since this is also how you can get quality letters of recommendation. I have heard of people with GPA's of 3.1-3.3 getting into top programs (even MIT) because they had research experience or publications.

Also, GRE is one of the least relevant parts of your application (less so than GPA), since it mainly serves as a filter. Once your score is above a certain threshold, same with GPA, your time is better spent stressing over other parts of the application. Some schools have stated they do not consider GRE (even before COVID), and because of COVID, while some will still consider GRE, the list of schools that won't require GRE is likely to grow.

HYPSM: your mileage will vary here. At least in my field (Computer Science), Stanford and MIT are definitely at the top. However, for Harvard, Princeton, Yale, etc. mileage may vary more, since there are state school programs like Illinois, GA Tech, that are ranked higher. So it isn't necessarily the best comparison, to compare programs like "good state schools" between "HYPSM"

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  • @Buffy I mentioned this. Some schools have stated they do not consider GRE (even before COVID), and because of COVID, while some will still consider GRE, the list of schools that won't require GRE is likely to grow.
    – Daveguy
    May 16, 2021 at 19:56
  • "GPA can only help up until a certain point (usually around 3.3-3.7). Once you are above this threshold, you are better focusing on other aspects of your application." That was the kind of answer I was looking for.
    – Tom Au
    May 16, 2021 at 21:01
  • Yeah it doesn't help to have a GPA of 4.0 as opposed to a 3.5, 3.6, maybe even 3.3 or 3.4 if your research and everything else is good.
    – Daveguy
    May 17, 2021 at 16:55

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