How should I consider a possibly rude reply from a potential PhD advisor?

Question

I am in my first semester of my applied math PhD program in the United States. The professor (potential PhD advisor) of the course I am auditing has replied to my question about the schedule for the final project:

I mentioned several times in the chat box in class. Did not you attend or did not you listen?

I had honestly not remembered that this was done and so it is my fault for not listening properly. However, I am interpreting this reply to be quite aggressive or rude. Should I no longer consider this person to possibly be my research advisor? How does one handle such a reply?

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Thank you all for your advice and general comments. They have very much helped me.

Answer 1

He/she is probably very busy, and has repeated the same message probably N times. Also, we all assume students will find the required information by themselves. Nowadays, I find that students simply don't spend the time to look for information. Their first instinct is to simply to message me, and hope that I will solve their problems for them; this is very similar to a kid asking their parents, can you please clean up after me? It is ok if you are 2 year old, but not OK after a certain age.

As for whether the professor should be a supervisor, you should look at whether he/she is successful in supervising students. Yes, he/she may not entertain trivial questions and tell you off, but that may mean you need to work independently and at a high level.

Answer 2

As an external observer, what strikes me here is:

A) yes, the answer is unnecessarily rude. Everybody can have bad days, but if this person routinely reacts aggressively and loses their temper whenever dealing with perceived "failures" from others, then they seem a poor match as an advisor for you, as they probably would continuously drag you down emotionally.

So the bigger question here is: is this a pattern of behaviour, or is this person usually supportive? Do they encourage other people, or constantly put them down? Basically: are they a bully? Open your eyes and ears and look for further clues. And maybe talk to some of their current or former students.

B) Poor organisation/communication skills. Important information like a schedule shouldn't be communicated through a chat box, or require attendance to a specific event. You would expect it to feature very clearly in some easily accessible reference written material (a web page for the course, and/or the course's introduction slides, etc.)

That's another red flag. Again, does this person seem generally well organised, do they communicate their thoughts clearly, or do they generate an aura of confusion around them, and expect other people to just read their minds? (and blame them when they fail to do so). Again, try and talk to some of their current and former students...

That second point would be the biggest red flag for me. You can grow a thick skin against insensitive comments, but you can't really work around a disorganised advisor who can't communicate.

Answer 3

of the course I am auditing

One possibility is that you have (a) an overworked professor, (b) who gets asked little questions like this over & over enough to get annoyed and who (c) appreciates these questions even less from someone who is only auditing the course.

As I understand it (having been out of college for a very long time, but Google'd it to be sure it is still at least basically what it meant 35 years ago), auditing means you are not getting credit for the course. If the professor recognizes that you are only auditing the course, then they may well treat your questions, especially about things like project scheduling, as almost pointless since you don't have to actually do the projects!

Your intention in auditing may be to do everything in the course at a top level, as if you were taking the course for credit. But at least some people audit so they can learn the subject matter without being under any pressure and, therefore, not bother with exams and projects.

If indeed that is the case, I would expect the professor to (time permitting) respond well to a subject-matter question from you, just not to the administrative questions.

Answer 4

I'm moving this from comment section.

You seem to feel that your only fault was not listening properly, but actually, asking the professor was rude, immature and unprofessional. Did you really think they did not announce the final project schedule because they'd rather reply to an e-mail by every student in the class?

The only acceptable way of asking such a question is (a) make sure the answer is not in available sources: course page/syllabus/chat history search; (b) make sure other students in the class don't know either; (c) make sure it's past the time this info should have been available (d) write a very polite message indicating you went through steps (a)-(c).

If you didn't do that, and especially if your message was not really polite, they were justifiably annoyed. Their reaction to rudeness may have been not ideal, but we are all humans.

Answer 5

The life of a professor, as their career progresses is never getting easier, at least if they are serious about their research. There is a neverending stream of academic chores (grant writing, teaching, faculty meetings, conferences) and in between there is a little time left for research. But progress in research is critical since everything else depends on it.

Needless to say, there is sometimes a bit of frustration, and professors, in their relationships with people, may appear brusque or rude. When you have 45 seconds to respond to a mail, you may write something like:

It's in the chat.
J.

as an answer to a carefully worded and polite question about some missing assignment or syllabus, or whatever one of the students didn't understand. If you have a minute and 45 seconds, you might think that this is your third student who wrote you about this, when everyone else didn't need additional clarification. Given the additional time, you may write more, and you might be rude. Especially rude if your wife is calling you for the third time to remind you her friends are coming to dinner, so you better not be late.

Actually, you may come across as rude when answering to your own friends, whom you actually like. They call you to congratulate you on your birthday, and you cut them short saying you're running late to a class where students are not getting the syllabus, or whatever, because you're too overwhelmed with other things. Again, the other things, may be a million and they all need your time.

There are research-first professors and there are professors who put teaching in the first place. The first usually get to teach the graduate students, exactly because they tend to skimp on niceties. The second (at least in US universities) get to teach undergraduates, and they are usually nicer, and teach better.

Unfortunately, when you chose an academic adviser, you choose from the first category. Some are rude, some are just exasperated that deadlines are approaching and their postdocs/students aren't making progress. What I'm trying to say is that your perception of their email should not be the basis for your choice of an adviser.

Some others advised to check their publication record, talk to their students, and see where the group alumni continued their careers. If the atmosphere in the group is not good (too competitive environment, abusive behavior, etc.) that's a much more serious red flag than a seemingly rude email. As a general rule, look at what that guy is doing, rather than judge what they say. Think about this. Your post makes you appear entitled. But, I don't know you, and it's very possible you've only dealt with very nice teachers up to this point. "Nice" is what I was when I was teaching introductory classes. "Nice" doubles your workload, without necessarily providing significant extra value to your students.

Answer 6

Personally that would make me think twice about having them as an advisor. Sure it would have been good for you to see their answer in the chat, but as a grad student you are committing ~5 years of your life to help them in research as you become a full fledged math PhD - that's a big deal and they need to have some level of respect for you that I don't think their response is displaying. Grad school is hard and you're going to hit a lot of bumps along the way and need your advisor to have your back. If this is how they responded to a mildly annoying question, how will they react when you mess up an experiment (or whatever it is you math folks do ;) ).

I'm an electrical engineering grad student and I've certainly made my fair share of small mistakes and my advisor has been very supportive. When I worked as a professional for a year before starting my PhD program I got the same level of respect and support I'm getting now. In short, what they sent seems unprofessional to me and like they have a very authoritative view of the advisor/student relationship.

Answer 7

You need to find the right advisor for You

This not only means learning about how the advisor behaves but also about how you react emotionally and academically to different advisor styles.

I mentioned several times in the chat box in class. Did not you attend or did not you listen?

There are people for which this type of comment will get under their skin, it will fester in their brain, and take time away from their research. It will fester well beyond what the advisor intended, leading to feelings of self-doubt (does my advisor still like me?), rather than the student noting the error for future improvements, and moving on. This isn't a "bad" or "wrong" way to react, it just is who a lot of us are. If this is you, and I would guess it is, based on the fact that you spent all this time to ask a question about it - it does suggest that a highly critical and judgmental advisor would not be a good fit for your learning style. Advisors sit on a spectrum, they can be critical (some students respond well to blunt corrections) or encouraging (some students respond better to pointing out what's right, and inferring what's wrong), hands-on (some like lots of support, but some might find it controlling) or hands-off (some don't like the lack of support, but some might find the freedom exhilarating), etc.

It's possible this advisor just had a bad day, but learn from past students what this advisor is like, and take your feelings now, as a clue to how you might react to him in the future when you screw up some aspect of your research (and you will, we all do, it's how to recover from these mistakes that define our dissertations). So pick an advisor that is going to breed success, make you productive, and not cause you too much stress.

Answer 8

I'm going to be just as brusque as your professor.

Did you attempt to obtain this information from one of the many other sources that I would assume exist for a student to know the schedule for their class' final project? For instance, class materials and web sites, the class chat log, or other students.

If you didn't, you're showing disrespect for your professor's time. You're a PhD candidate, not a middle-schooler. By now in your life, you should be expected to have initiative, resourcefulness, and above all, consideration for other people's time in what is effectively your workplace.

If I'm honest with you, then yes, I do think you should consider this person as an advisor. As someone who is not willing to coddle his students, he may be able to break you of some lingering bad habits, so long as you're willing to consider his feedback as tough love, rather than just being needlessly rude.

Answer 9

I think there is an opportunity here for you to learn something about the environment you are considering to go into. Your question shows that you are not completely aware of the academic life and the environment you may end up spending significant time in. I strongly recommend to make good use of this opportunity before you consider starting a PhD.

What situation is your potential advisor in that would trigger such a response?

Any person in an academic setting (that is not a permanently employed technical staff) has one main objective: to publish high-ranking papers. This will add to their track record. And basically everything in their work life depends on this track record. Their finance, the finance of their groups, the size of their groups, their position in the decision making processes at their institution, the reputation among their peers, the chance of invitation to high-ranking conferences, promotions and job opportunities, everything. All other factors in academics rate way lower than this single factor.

How does one achieve a high track record?

There are cases where academics build a high track record by pure luck, by making a great discovery that leads to one or more highly cited papers. There are also cases where academics are such bright minds that with little work, they can make such relevant contributions to their field that they can build a strong track record. But for most people, building a good track record involves an immense amount of very hard work. And in modern times, even all the hard work may not be sufficient for an individual to achieve really high ranking publications. In many fields its nowadays more common that larger groups of people need to work together to make significant contributions.

Mind you that in addition to their research, most academics need to spend time with teaching, reviewing papers, following new contributions in their field, attending conferences, organizing conferences, administrative work, etc.

How does this relate to you?

Since you have been surprised by the answer of your potential supervisor, it shows that you are not expecting the "normality" academic life. You are seeing the great adventure that a PhD poses for you, and very well so. But take a chance to look behind the curtain: What does your PhD mean for your advisor and their group?

Any academic group leader is well advised to enrich their group with people that add to the track record of the group. Everyone in the group depends on it, with their academic career. There is no second place for publishing late - either you are the first, or you missed your chance. So everyone must try to constantly give their best to achieve this. All academic life is built around this competition.

With your mistake, you showed that you did not do your research about the course in time and self-dependent. Before starting a PhD I strongly suggest to re-consider if you are prepared for the academic life. Its an environment where there are no second places. If you're not willing and prepared to constantly and tirelessly give your best, or if you are brilliant or lucky, it can be a very hard life.

Answer 10

If a superior replies to me like that I would first try to determine wrong doing on my part, if you are in the wrong the best course of action is first an apology and second a written commitment from you to do better next time. If your investigation shows no wrongdoing on your part, very briefly explain that back and express your regret that a miscommunication has occurred and also express how moving forward you will endeavour to try and minimise these incidents as you understand his/her time is precious and in short supply. If you still get a negative response this person is probably not for you. In short, treat this like a test for them

Answer 11

Do not take the professor as a supervisor.

The constructive way to deal with irritating circumstances is to go ahead, not to waste time on recrimination and attribution of blame for the past.

Why did they spend time on complaining and belittling you when it could have been spent on answering the question and mentioning neutrally the normal sources of information that has been missed?

You may have acted inappropriately as some answers suggest, or the prof may have been overworked, busy and stressed, as others argue, but the incident reveals this person’s personality as recriminatory and backward-looking when pressured. Avoid them.