Should I simultaneously apply for multiple jobs in different ranks at the same university?

Question

Say this year the university A advertises one postdoc and one tenure-track position. If I prefer the tenure track position, but am not sure that I can get it, what should I choose between the following two options?

Option A: Apply for both postdoc and tenure-track positions.

Option B: Apply for tenure-track position only, hoping that even if I don't get it, the university will consider offering me the postdoc position.

I thought that Option A is safer, but some of my friends say the opposite. They think that if you apply for both positions, then even if you are good for the tenure-track position, the university will tend to offer you only the postdoc position, the lowest rank that you asked for.

Do you have any insight on this?

For more information: the job market I am referring to is the US'.

What if we have other situations: postdoc/lecturer, lecturer/tenure-track, or postdoc/lecturer/tenure-track?

Answer 1

My experience is in mathematics in the US. My personal experience is that people will not read anything especially deep into applying for both jobs. Everybody understands that the market is tough, and basically expects everybody to apply to every opening. I've seen instances where a person was considered both for a postdoc and TT position at the same university, and this was not seen as an issue at all (there was much more strategizing around the question of whether they would come for a postdoc).

In the vast majority of cases (without, say, a severe geographical constraint), I think if you consider TT and postdoc at the same place as both reasonable options for you and plausible possibilities, you're probably kidding yourself on one score or another. Generally if you'd even be seriously looked at for a TT job at University X, then when the postdoc committee looks at your file, they'll say "We could hire this person for a TT job. There's no way that a postdoc at University X is the best job they'll get." and they probably won't offer you the position. But unless you feel confident about which way it is, I don't see any problem with applying to both.

EDIT: One thing I'll add, which is mathematics specific: if you're applying MathJobs, the visual difference between applications for the different jobs is negligible. There is a column where you can see what positions the applicant applied for, but it's not very noticeable. So, it's quite possible the committee for one job won't even notice you applied for the other (I have seen this happen).

Answer 2

As a recruiter, I don't see much of Chris's point. And, as a candidate (some years ago), I followed pretty much your option B (apply to both). Here's the reasoning:

Times are though, and the academic job market is very competitive. Anyone who expects you to apply only to a single position (“applying to more that different positions shows that you don't know what you want”, or “you don't believe in your chances”) is delusional to some extent. You will apply to backup post-doc positions, and I don't think you benefit by excluding the place where you also apply for faculty position.

In fact, you can actually turn that into a pretty positive argument: “I love your institution/department, this is really my dream place to work at, and if I don't get on faculty this year I'm willing to take a post-doc, know you all better and try again next year (if circumstances permit).”

I'll add that this is actually commonly done in France, UK and some other European countries: once you've traveled a bit, find the place where you want to settle, apply there, and if you don't get the job on the first try, get a post-doc there and try again later.

Answer 3

One thing to be aware of that I don't think others have mentioned is timing. In my field (theoretical particle physics in the US), postdoc hiring decisions are all made in December and January, while interviews for faculty jobs usually take place in February, March, and possibly April. Postdocs who are on the last year of their current job have to apply for and accept a postdoc position, even if they are hoping to get a tenure-track offer, simply because of the timeline. If they haven't accepted a postdoc job in January, and they don't manage to get a tenure-track offer that spring, they have no job at all. Because of this, everyone expects that people will apply for both postdocs and faculty positions simultaneously.

The timing of these things will potentially vary depending on your field, so this consideration might or might not be relevant. But it's something to think about.

Answer 4

I suggest choosing the job you want and think you have a good shot at, and then apply for that position. Here is my rationale (and supposition, to a certain extent):

If you apply to both positions, you've told both hiring committees a couple of things: you've said to the tenure-track committee that you would be happy with the post-doc position, otherwise you wouldn't be applying for it. You've said to the post-doc position, "I'm doing this as a backup in case I don't get the tenure-track position." In both cases, you're not telling them anything particularly good. Sure, there is the possibility that they'll see your dual application as really wanting to work in that particular department, but I wouldn't bet on it.

If you can make a good case why you are very competitive for the tenure-track position, then go for it. Apply to post-docs elsewhere if you want a bit more of a backup (although in the job market it isn't really worthwhile to talk about "backups" in the same way you talk about it for school applications). Also, there is something to be said about applying for the position you really want: it demonstrates your own belief that you are well qualified (but, of course, you may end up without a job...).

If you can't make the case that you're a strong candidate for the tenure-track position, apply for the post-doc position. You'll get the experience you need to be competitive for future tenure-track positions, and there is always an off-chance that there may be another position opening up at this school, and you'll be more competitive for it (and know people on the committee). I don't believe there is the same stigma about hiring post-docs into positions at the same school as there is for hiring PhD students into positions at the same school (which is rare).

Answer 5

Unless it is a huge department, the committees will overlap and/or communicate with one another. If you are a strong shortlist-able contender in the TT candidate pool they will proceed thus and so; if you are somewhat marginal TT-wise, but still strong relevant to the PD pool, they will say OK this person is a bit overly ambitious right now but let's take him on a PD for a few years and see how things go; and if you are not strong in either pool none of this matters.

Now, you may get an interview for a TT position and then they bring up the PD application and say, if we offer you a PD instead, would you take it up. Tricky! They think you are TT material (you are being interviewed) but can be got on the cheap (it opens up a slot for some other good person). If you blink now you will always be a push-over in the eyes of this department, and this will delay any subsequent promotions by many years. If you want to be there badly enough that you are prepared to take this hit, then agree. If not, say that you now feel the TT is the appropriate fit and see where the chips fall. You may also propose a compromise: take a PD for a few years with an official commitment from them that you will get TT at the end of that.